Leveraging your strengths, making career pivots | Krishna Kumar N, Business Storytelling Consultant, Fractional CMO

This transcript has been lightly edited. 

Mita Mandawker
(00:03):


Hello and welcome to Ctrl + Alt + Marketing. I am your host, Mita Mandawker. My guest today is Krishna Kumar N a Business Storytelling Consultant and a Fractional CMO who was previously the Head of Brand Marketing at iMocha and Director of Marketing at Prodapt. Now here's a twist. He wasn't always a marketer. He spent over a decade leading sales and business development teams before starting in marketing. He's also a thought leader and his insights have been published in major outlets like Economic Times, YourStory and a lot more. If you're curious about what it takes to build a successful career in marketing even if it wasnt your original plan, you don't want to miss this episode. Let’s meet Krishna. Thank you Krishna for joining me today in, you know, for this episode of Ctrl + Alt + Marketing. 

Mita Mandawker
(00:56):

I’m so excited to have you here and to listen to your story and share your story with the audience. Now one thing before we just start off, I would love to get into your professional journey. But before that I would love to learn about you and your early life before we get into that. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:15):

Thank you Mita for having me. Nice to be part of this show. Interesting name. Also Ctrl + Alt + Marketing. Lot of people or familiar with that terminology, Ctrl Alt and something else. But yeah, it's good to be part of a marketing show and share my story to your audience. So yeah, I think my journey before I got, before I delve into my studies and the things. I was based in Madurai, something like a city 500 km from chennai in Tamil Nadu and which is known for very culturally rich temples and lot of it's also called as Temple city because of the number of temples that surround the famous Meenakshi temple and other things are there. So I grew up in a place called Gandhi museum. 

Krishna Kumar N
(02:19):

My father worked for a Gandhian institution and because of which we had a campus, a community in which were living a campus. And I had done all my schooling and my engineering in the same place. So my father was kind enough and was able to put through in a good school throughout and didn't have a chance to move around. That was also a good situation to be in at that point of time. But now I see that, okay, multiple schools also offers multiple friendships. But yeah, by virtue of being in one school there was a stable life, a school life. And I also studied did my undergraduate engineering and the same city engineering college. So that's a brief about my personal life. 

Mita Mandawker
(03:10):

Great, you briefly mentioned that, you started your career as a mechanical engineer and it's a very different field from marketing altogether. So initially, what was it that drove you into engineering? And you know, later on, like from engineering, how did things happen because you even worked as an engineer after your graduation. 

Krishna Kumar N
(03:34):

Yeah, that's true. So yeah, technically if you classify that my career, it could be like, oh, I'm in the third or fourth leg of the segment of the career starting off as an engineer. I mean got into engineering or the undergraduate stroke of the millennium. 

Mita Mandawker
(03:59):

Right. 

Krishna Kumar N
(03:59):

Like 2000 is when I got into my undergraduation college. So at that point of time, you study half decent, you are going to engineering. And that's the same case. That was the same case with me also. So even though my father wanted me to take up biology group during my 11th and 12th, I prefered to opt out. I mean subject which is that point of time was very buzzing, right? Like computer science. In nineties, late nineties I took up by computer science maths group and which means you only have probably two options. One, if you are decent enough, you get into engineering or you get into some maths or science courses. 

Krishna Kumar N
(04:52):

So because by virtue of the school and the friends and that situation, that point of time, the overall market and everything, engineering was the only default choice, actually. In fact, I didn't even buy any other application for my undergraduation, any other college, nothing. I just got only one application for the Tamil Nadu engineering admissions. So I was like so much confident and fixated that I am going to be an engineer. I'm not very sure like why at that point of time looking back like 25 years after. But yeah, I think it was early days and you only had so much knowledge to look around. But yeah, I got into engineering, I did a decent job. 

Krishna Kumar N
(05:46):

It was a private engineering college and one of the top, most at that point of time in that city, my city. And for mechanical engineers, campus placements are very rare, even in top engineering colleges. Very few companies used to come and offer campus top tier colleges. Of course, yeah, there will be multiple companies that will come. But the core companies, they call companies that offer you jobs in the mechanical engineering domain, right? Like manufacturing or something like that. So there were anyway, they were anyway few in most of the colleges. It was always tech companies that used to recruit more. Even then, unfortunately for me, at that point of time there was this company that came called El Forge Ltd. they came only once earlier. My seniors were also recruited and I think they came in the subsequent year also. And I was fortunate. 

Krishna Kumar N
(06:44):

I was one of the three classmates, three friends among us, of my batchmates got, placed there. That was the only company that came for campus. And I'm really lucky that I could get in there. And, yeah, I think, that's how I got into mechanical engineering as a professional after I studied, I mean, both studies and job, in the same domain, something a lot of people are spare and most of the times we want to do that's why we are studying that. But, yeah, that was very fortunate for me. And I was, you can say lucky because there are a lot of other classmates who had top score and who are way ahead of me. Like another aspects, like academically, but I think my appetite to read and things like that. 

Krishna Kumar N
(07:40):

Like beyond just course content, that helped me in personal interview on the group discussions, apart from the domain knowledgde. So that's how I landed up in my first job as a mechanical engineer. 

Mita Mandawker
(07:55):

So you started working at this place, that only company that had come in for mechanical engineering, you landed a role with your friends, you were working alongside your friends. And quite a few things happened there which ultimately led you to take a slightly different decision when it came to your career. Let's get into that. Like, how was that first job as a fresh engineer out of college? 

Krishna Kumar N
(08:29):

So I studied in, or my city was Madurai, and this company is based in Chennai. And they had a few manufacturing plants in and around Chennai. And then there was one plant they had in Kosur, which is closer to Bangalore. Our job was to manage the shop floor. There were multiple shifts, I think three shifts are there. So one of the shifts, my friend, was after a brief training, right, a month or two, were asked to manage one of the ships, basically, and manage the entire shop floor. The average labourer or the worker. Whoever was working there was at least five years older and older than us. And at least the eldest would have been like at least double of our age, like at least mid thirties, forties. 

Krishna Kumar N
(09:18):

And we were just out of college and were asked to manage them. So basically we don't know much about a lot of other things that they are doing. They are already subject matter experts because they are working there for several years. And I mean, asking us to manage them without so much out of knowledge, I'm not sure, like whether I will take the chance. But the company was brave enough to give us that opportunity. But I think my senior had proved them that it works and he had done a very good job. So I had to thank him because after he got in, he brought in some improvements and other things and which gave them confidence that these guys, even though they are like graduate engineers, they're able to do it well. And probably that's the thing that he did. 

Krishna Kumar N
(10:07):

That's a good job that he did, for which were rewarded and. But I'm still skeptical, like how they can trust us. But unluckily for me, I was not given the shop floor management, but I was asked to manage the maintenance team. That was a maintenance kit. And I was an apprentice, something like that, training along with him. And he had to go on like two months holiday or break because he was appearing for some exams for his higher studies. And they asked me to manage the entire team. And that was a big, I mean, so very unpleasant move for me because it's a small five, six member team and I mean, at least shop floor is something which is a very. Everyone in the company or from the manager, the branch head to everyone knows the knowledge of. 

Krishna Kumar N
(11:04):

But maintenance is a more nuanced and more intricate work because a machine is, I mean, shuts down, then you need to go and troubleshoot and make it work. And I don't know anything about those presses or anything, but I am asked to manage them, so I can't give them any insights or anything. So that's how the journey was. But yeah, slowly and eventually we learn. And it was not a very comfortable learning like what now? After I realizing how the IT companies are giving training versus the manufacturing setup, and especially with the place where I started my career, it's too vast, different, actually. 

Krishna Kumar N
(11:51):

So you don't have any formal training process, you don't get exposure to how the machines are working and things like that, all of that, you just learn on the job and then you master that with your knowledge and you manage people. So actually too complicated for a 21 year old guy at that point of time, that lot of pressure. So, yeah, I think all of that created discomfort in me. Probably a lot of moving parts, right? Like people management, technology, this thing, all of that. Also along with that, I also questioned whether I wanted to continue this. And so all of that made me to think a lot. So whether this is the path that I should continue. 

Krishna Kumar N
(12:42):

So that's when I looked for opportunities. Even for accessing an Internet, there was only one Internet cafe in that place. So I used to go later in the day after my shift is over to that place. I think one 1 hour used to cost like INR 40. Yeah. So I think that's when I started exploring multiple other options and fortunately I got an opportunity or where a school friend of mine was working in sales role. So that's when that opportunity also came along and he called me and told that do you want to, there is an opportunity like this, should you want to explore. So that's where my mechanical engineering like around like ten or eleven months of journey ends actually. 

Krishna Kumar N
(13:31):

So that's the longestwhich I was actually an engineer for the four years that I spent (studying). 

Mita Mandawker
(13:41):

What an introduction to mechanical engineering, like the hardcore, you know, being there on the floor doing everything. You were thrown in the deep end. I think the whole idea not working out, it meant you had a different path to pursue and that's how you came into sales and that's how your further journey starts off. So you got your start in sales thanks to a school friend who was already working in a sales role, but, and also understood like your motivation behind doing this. I recall you saying that, when you started working in your first sales role, the movie Rocket Singh, it resonated a lot with your experience. So like how was the first sales role? How did things go? What was your experience like from mechanical engineering into a very different world altogether. 

Krishna Kumar N
(14:37):

Yeah, so Rocket Singh, the movie itself was made later actually. But I could resonate with that movie because I have done that job most of the things. Most of the sales guys were selling computers in the mid 2000s might relate to the Rocket Singh movie very well. So yeah, I think I joined HCL Info Systems in a sales role to sell computers. Basically that point of time it was all box computers, the old thing which we don't see anymore. And my job was, yeah, I was tasked to sell into the market closer to Coimbatore. So I was part of the regional office in Coimbatore. So we, the extended locations. Right. Cities, there are multiple cities which were under the Coimbatore region. So I was deputed to Tirupur, which is known for T-shirts manufacturing and other things. 

Krishna Kumar N
(15:38):

So there is a lot of industries there to sell computers to these industries, t-shirt manufacturing companies and any educational institutions, small government institutions. So those were the target audience or target customers for this product. I was one of the first team member in that sales team member in that region. All others were like mostly service engineers for whom they are already servicing. So I was asked to sell into the entire city, like wherever I could find customers to buy. So you make a plan, every day, I mean, you have a weekly or monthly that sort of targets. So you know that, okay, I will go in this street or this road for today. 

Krishna Kumar N
(16:33):

And these are the number of companies. Once you go there, these are like 20 companies that are there. So you just start going, doing cold calling. Like, you know, after the security, then you get in and then there may be some receptionist. There may not be a receptionist. The owner may be sitting in the front. You just directly go. You ask them like who they are and things like that. I mean, in a subtle manner. And then you say why you are there. And then you go and start pitching. So that's how the journey starts. So you don't have a lot of marketing diligence or accounting diligence, all of that we talk now. So, and knock like ten doors. 

Krishna Kumar N
(17:13):

Probably two will say that, okay, you come tomorrow or maybe, let's discuss this maybe a week later, next month, something like that. So that's how the job is. So, first quarter was very tough because that's when a lot of learning happened. And I was also sort of a very soft spoken, very introverted guy. And it's very difficult to overcome that inhibitions. Sometimes the building itself will threaten you. Like, it's so massive building that you are standing in front of it and you don't know anyone to walk in, guide you to get into the building to talk, and then you initiate the discussion and things like that. So, yeah, I think the first three, four months had been a lot of learning. And then I started slowly getting converting orders. 

Krishna Kumar N
(18:03):

Now after one year, I moved to a close by another city, which is little more bigger, a place called Erode. And there, the education segment business was huge. A lot of engineering colleges were there. And they used to buy like 200 machines, some 300 machines, things like that. So you do one deal, you're done for the year, sort of a target sort of thing. So I managed to close some good deals in the next six months. 

Krishna Kumar N
(18:42):

The first year was relatively average, I would say, but the second six months, I mean, the next year, six months where still when I was there, I could overachieve because of good accounts getting converted. So, yeah, that's how the process was. After one year itself, I decided that, okay, sales is what I want to pursue. So I need to upskill myself, and I need to learn or enroll into an MBA program. So I started going for weekend entrance coaching to a nearby town, Coimbatore, basically to prepare for entrance, the CAT entrance test. So, yeah, I think for six months I've been doing that every weekend was spent traveling and then learning and, yeah, so that's how the sales journey started. 

Mita Mandawker
(19:44):

You know, the experience with the Internet cafe, you did actually proper door to door sales. It's so tough right now. Even with the tools that we have right now, it's not easy. And to do it at that point of time, to actually go meet people, I mean, things were done like that before, COVID but not easy. But I think I would say one thing, at least from the way it's coming across, you really enjoyed working in sales as compared to working in mechanical engineering, like what you were doing earlier. This definitely brought a lot of happiness. 

Krishna Kumar N
(20:29):

Yeah, you can say, even though it was a tough situation in the sense. Yeah, I think compared to engineering role, this is something which I wanted to pursue further and I wanted to develop, build on that. That's for sure. But it was not something which was very comfortable doing it, because by nature, by personality, you are something else and you are trying to overcome that and you acquire the other traits that are needed for the job and do that. So, yeah, I think it was good learning experience. I'm not sure, like, whether people are doing that door to door in enterprise setting anymore, even though a lot of other businesses do insurance and other people. But it's very rare that you see that happening. 

Mita Mandawker
(21:29):

I think Covid also brought about a lot of changes. It actually, you know, gave us that whole scenario that, okay, sales and a lot of other things can happen even if you're not sitting together in the same room. Sitting together in the same room, obviously the impact is a lot different. But, yeah, I think that's definitely there. So coming back to your story, so you decide. So you spent like a year and a half doing your first role in sales, and then you figured that, okay, yeah, if this is something I want to move ahead in, then you wanted to get into like an MBA. You got into market post MBA at a very difficult time in economy. It was the 2008 financial crisis. So how was your experience, like during MBA? Were you always planning to do your MBA in marketing? 

Mita Mandawker
(22:19):

What were the things that happened at that point of time? 

Krishna Kumar N
(22:24):

So I had given CAT and scored a decent marks, so that I got into Pondicherry University, which is a central government university, and they had a Department of Management Studies, which is one of the oldest in the central universities in South India, actually. My intention when I wanted to do MBA was to specialize in finance, because I read a lot during my preparation for CAT, and I got an impression that the finance guys, because they are managing money, they also make more money. So that was the intention that once I get into an MBA, I will pursue finance specialization. So with that intent only, I joined, So the first year, I joined in 2007 and it was all good. 

Krishna Kumar N
(23:22):

And the first year was, anyway, general, studies and other things, but because, two good things, right, like the department had good faculty in marketing and, And once I started learning more about the subjects, I realized that, okay, more than finance, I will because I can leverage my past experience in sales also. So I said that, okay, now, instead of like specializing in finance, where it's a very new subject, and I wanted to build on my strengths, which, because sales is something which I already came up with. So I decided to do specialization in marketing. 

Krishna Kumar N
(24:02):

It also gave a lot of exposure, because I see a lot of merit when companies, I mean, colleges institutes when they say that, okay, you have real work experience to do an MBA program because it added a lot of value to me because I came with an experience. We were like out of 60 or 65 people in my batch, around four to five members were experienced folks, at least two years of experience. So I could see the lot of difference, the way we think and the way we approach certain problems and courses and other things, versus somebody was just graduated and immediately doing an MBA program. But I feel that when someone comes with an experience, definitely a lot of value is there. 

Krishna Kumar N
(24:54):

And one great thing about the Pondicherry University was it's because it's a central university, you get candidates or students from all across India. So we had the students from Andaman Nicobar. I had my batchmates from Andaman Nicobar to Jammu Kashmir to like Rajasthan, all corners of the country. We had around 18 to 19 states representation. It was a very new experience for me personally because all the while I had been in Tamil Nadu and very rarely had ventured beyond the state. So this brought a lot of cultural nuances and awareness, which is also very essential once you get into job and once you start exploring, traveling and moving out of cities and states. Right, like understanding the culture, being culturally aware and knowing about a lot of things definitely adds value. 

Krishna Kumar N
(25:54):

So it was a very good foundation that I had, but beyond that, I got a lot of exposure, which I couldn't or I didn't do during my other schooling or my engineering days. So it was a very great opening and foundation for me. And, yeah, like what you said, 2007, I got in, and 2008 is when the global financial crisis started. So naturally, when we graduated 2009, the campus placements were very bad. There were companies that were coming. I think we had one or two tech companies that visited our campus and there were few off campus. And then a bunch of banks came to campus to hire, nationalised banks also. But I think, to me, I was not very keen on pursuing banking as a career. 

Krishna Kumar N
(26:51):

So most of the campus placements, I opted out in the banking domain, even though they were like public sector. But good thing was, like, when I did my internship and my summer internship after the first year, so I did it with a company called Avaya GlobalConnect, which was selling IP telephony unified conferencing solutions and things like that. So my mentor was a very good gentleman, Solomon. And so he actually was impressed. And the branch I was, I did it (internship) in Bangalore, actually. They appreciated the work and they said that once you're done with the course, we will see, like, if there's an opportunity, most likely we'll get you here something sort of a soft commitment he gave to me. So that was anyway, there. 

Krishna Kumar N
(27:50):

So that was a good thing, right? Like your internships, unlike the tier one MBA schools, where the PPOs (Pre Placement Offers) and other things are a very common thing, I was in a very mid-tier B-school. Managing to get that commitment was good, actually, for me, and I had that confidence. But because of the global financial crisis, most of the companies had hiring pause, and that was also there in Avaya. So when I dialed him up, he said that this is the situation. So whenever there is a lift in the hiring pause, I will definitely reach out to you. But for now, there is no hiring. So. So it was left to my own self. But I think because of the background in sales and because of the internship that I did with Avaya, I got an opportunity with Godrej. Godrej and Boyce, which is. 

Krishna Kumar N
(28:54):

One of the oldest business groups. So they were having a division called Prima, which was selling the earlier typewriters, which they rebranded to sell audio, video conferencing solutions, say, they say system integration. So I got into the division again to be part of the Tamil Nadu region. I was based in Chennai, the same sort of a role, sales role for the Tamil Nadu region. So some part of Tamil Nadu I was taking care. So that's how, even though there was the global financial crisis, because of the background, the prior work experience with HCL, specifically because Godrej were competing in this line of business, and the regional head who was hiring me, so he was very happy because I was. I was being treated like, okay, this guy is from a competition, so he knows how this stuff is done. 

Krishna Kumar N
(29:50):

And added to that, I did an internship with Avaya. So that also helped, because it was a OEM player. It's also one of the leading brands, which other companies are selling. So that all came in hand. And it's like connecting the dots, like Steve Jobs says, right. You don't know, like, why? Well, I mean, you go along with the flow when you look back, okay, these are the things that get connected. So, yeah, that's how my MBA journey leading up to the first job happened. 

Mita Mandawker
(30:23):

That was quite a roller coaster. But like you said, connecting the dots, all the things that you had done before it came together at that point of time. So, right now, like, you started your first role in a very financial crisis kind of this thing, but you landed at a very good place with Godrej and Boyce. You were doing sales over there, and you had, like, prior sales experience as well. Later on,you moved on from Godrej, and you moved to another place. And there was quite a bit of story even over there. Before you moved to the next role, where you ended up spending a really sizable amount of time, there were a couple of things that happened. Can we just get into that? 

Mita Mandawker
(31:07):

I would love to have the listeners know that part of your story, too. 

Krishna Kumar N
(31:13):

So I think things happen for some reason, right? Like global financial crisis at that time. And so after I joined Godrej I was there for a year and a half but somehow I was not getting that comfort and there was an urge to look out and things are not very good for me at that point of time. So our sales was also not happening as much as I wanted and yeah basically things are not working out and I was also trying to see like whether I can, why I was evaluating opportunities like what should be done and things like that. So that's when I got a call out of the blue from my MBA mentor in Avaya. 

Krishna Kumar N
(32:03):

He said that the hiring pause has been lifted and there is an opportunity with the Bangalore division and he wanted me to give the video interview from Chennai office, from Chennai Avaya. So I went there, I gave the interview. Meanwhile through an MBA alumni I got an opportunity to interview with a company called Aricent and they were a software company primarily selling to product telecom product companies like Nokia, Samsung, Siemens and Alcateluz and a lot of other Ericsen Cisco. That sort of companies, they were providing software services. So through them, through my MBA alumni, I reached out to, I mean I got this reference and I gave an interview there and I was selected there also. So I was interviewed for a role in the upper management team in Aricent company. So I got an offer from there also. 

Krishna Kumar N
(32:58):

So yeah I was like year and half back without any job or in that very tough situation during the global financial crisis. Two, one of years later, two different companies, very good companies, very good brands having offers on both companies from both companies. So it was a good situation to be in at that point of time. Now the tough situation was to decide between these two because one has a similar role where what I was doing with both, similar sort of same geography, same similar sort of products. Just that a bigger brand and it's an international brand. The other was switch, complete switch. Selling to international market, managing large accounts, understanding software services and selling software solutions, things like that. 

Krishna Kumar N
(33:49):

Somehow I was not very convinced that okay, this career path selling to domestic market is something which I wanted to do and I felt that even during, when I was doing sales calls I always had this envy on the software guys that, okay, what these guys do within the AC rooms. So I wanted to be part of that culture of that. I wanted to explore that option. It means a desk job, not on a bike, roaming under the sun and things like that. So that is just the start. But you will notice the difference only after you join the job. So all the flashy things you see when you're on the other side. 

Krishna Kumar N
(34:34):

But, different points I evaluated and I decided to join with Aricent In the larger account management team. So it was a very different journey altogether compared to what I had been doing. 

Mita Mandawker
(34:50):

A lot of sales guys, at least based on what I've heard, they tend to stick to the same industries because there is a network, it's easier to sell and everything. So I think it also makes sense to switch up things a little more out of your comfort zone, try out new things, and you never know where you end up next. 

Krishna Kumar N
(35:19):

Yeah, it's very true. A lot of sales guys stick to the same industry because of the network they are building and to leverage that. Yeah, that's true. 

Mita Mandawker
(35:29):

So at that point of time, you were out of B-school. You had been working for a while, though. Things were not very rosy at the beginning, but things were starting to, like, pickup. You spend a sizable amount of time even with Aricent working in software sales and just getting your new chops over there. After that, you moved on to your next role, which was actually, you moved on to your next role at Prodapt. And that Prodapt was kind of the turning point in your career, I would say, because you kind of did so many things over there. And that's where you actually ended up moving into a very different role altogether by the end of your tenure there. So let's dive into it. Like, how did that happen? I believe you worked with Prodapt for close to eight years. 

Krishna Kumar N
(36:17):

So this role came knocking, the CEO then was trying to set up a new business development team in Chennai, and they were trying to build a new business development engine. And they were hiring for managers and executive sales, or BDRs, you can say, to lead the team. And I was one of the sales managers, BD managers hired for that role. So that's how I got into this, because for Prodapt was a small, much smaller company compared to, Aricent at that point The founder was very much invested in the growth, and he wanted to try a lot of new things. And so they had a very steady set of accounts.

Krishna Kumar N
(37:09):

They were also investing in new technologies, like, IoT at that point of time and a few other things. So they are also trying to get into newer accounts. Basically, Aricent was selling to telecom product equipment companies, providing software services. Prodapt was selling to communication service providers like the Airtel and Vodafone sort of companies. So basically, it's a similar industry, but different customer segment. So that's how I landed up with Prodapt to lead the new business development function. And yeah, I think couple of two and a half years I was in that role. And then there was an opportunity to lead the South Africa business, part product. And South Africa business has been there for some time with product. And the existing business was staying flat for a long time. 

Krishna Kumar N
(38:09):

And they wanted to bring in some new change and try to see if there is a growth possible there. So I moved to South Africa. Like, I travel quite a lot then, like because of some visa issues and my own personal situation also, I was married and my wife was working here, things like that. I didn't immediately wanted to move, but we tried to work out something like, okay, I will try. I will be there for every alternate month or two months, something like that. So almost for one and a half years or 18-19 months, I used to be shuttling between Chennai and Johannesburg. So again, it was a very good exposure because one of the first, probably the international exposure, sales exposure for me. And it's a very different market compared to the usual, very familiar US or the European markets. 

Krishna Kumar N
(39:08):

It's a little different market there. But yeah, I think they had a very good ecosystem of four, five top telecom companies to whom they could sell. We were already selling to one customer, one large telecom account there. So my charter was to grow that as well as to penetrate into newer accounts. So that was a stint that gave a lot of base for the next set of growth for me, because the geography was new, not much of business development knowledge within the ecosystem. I mean, how to crack the south african market and how to penetrate the new accounts. Not done much on that point of time. At that point of time, yeah, a lot of trial and error has to happen that point of time. And the company was also not very familiar or not a big brand like the large players. 

Krishna Kumar N
(40:05):

And individually also, you are learning. So it all forced me to try something unconventional. Like, you cannot go like india, knock at the door and go in. So it's very security sensitive city also, because there are guns. And I mean, you go to a mall, there will be a place to keep the guns actually, along with the parking lot. So, which you don't see in India. So we don't even know that who are having guns in our neighbors, right? Like, but there, it's very common. Like, you can see, like, gunshots happening and things like that. So it's a very different country and culture, even from a business angle. So one has to be nuanced from the people standpoint also, like mapping, account mapping and other things. 

Krishna Kumar N
(40:53):

This forced me to take LinkedIn a little more seriously at that point and to reach out to audience or my target customers through LinkedIn. Try to build a brand authority at that point of time, thought leadership, content, writing, things like that. Actually, I had not taken up for a long time. I used to read. My reading habits started during my college school days, and then I had written for, like, essays in the competition success review, which a lot of these civil service aspirants used to read. Now, because the situation was such that there is no other way to reach the audience. But this is the only option that I was thinking, okay, this is the better way to reach them. 

Krishna Kumar N
(41:41):

So I started writing about, like, common challenges faced by CIOs and CTOs of telecom companies and how that can be solved, as well as reaching out to them on LinkedIn and trying to get meetings and things like that. So over a period, yeah, over a period, I started getting some results. So initially I was trying to, I mean, do multiple things. Nothing happened. And then this one I constant consistently started doing over a period, it started yielding results. So I started getting meetings. People started responding to invites, things like that. So a lot of good things happened because of this approach. And I think whatever we call now, social selling or personal branding, I think I started doing that somewhere around 2017, 2018, that point of time. 

Krishna Kumar N
(42:32):

So, we got into a couple of new accounts at that point of time through that approach also. So it was very rewarding from that standpoint, even I got a couple of speaking opportunities which I could not go because I had to move on with another role. So all of this was a result of looking at what is the opportunities that are there, as well as how we can leverage social media, LinkedIn to build a brand authority, to build thought leadership content, and things like this, which eventually got me into newer accounts, conversions. 

Mita Mandawker
(43:17):

Your Prodapt journey has been quite the one with a lot of twists and turns. I recall from our previous conversation is through, and you used to go ahead because you were trying to develop the market and you were trying to take a slightly different approach. Also reached out to several publications, doing like, a proper cold outreach to these publications, pitching about you know, the kind of article that you would like to write. And that kind of yielded results, which ended up getting you on the radar of the senior leadership at Prodapt, which led to a few other changes later even. Can we just get into that? 

Krishna Kumar N
(43:59):

So along the lines when I reaching out to the south african market also, so I somehow again got some interest to get published. So I wrote a piece on how communication service providers are transforming to become digital service providers. And I pitched it to a couple of media houses and one of them was the Economic Times Telecom section editor. And that was picked up and they published that. So it was published on ET Telecom subsection, so that I actually shared it with my internal office colleagues and my LinkedIn and all of that. So that was one big win. And after some point of time, I continued that again. Then I wrote about how account based marketing could be done. And again, one of the ET arms picked up ET marketing or something. 

Krishna Kumar N
(44:59):

So they again picked it up and it was again live on ET.com website. So these were a couple of big wins. I also wrote to other two or three other more publications and it were also published data on wise or something, and not two more. So yeah, I think I finally, that point of time was something like, I was really going very focused on building both the writing as well as the other side of the face, office related thing. So definitely that was kind of a spark or something like that, which I think got noticed by some of the leadership team and Prodapt. And yeah, the role was so, I mean, I was there in South Africa for some time and I was still there at that point of time. 

Krishna Kumar N
(45:49):

They said that, okay, why don't you join the marketing team in Prodaptt? Because we are looking to get into bigger accounts and we definitely need lot of cover from marketing. And because you have knack for understanding of technology and how to articulate it, and you've done that and got results in South Africa, let's do it for at the company level. So that was the intention with which this proposal came to me, to join marketing. Even though it was not a very pleasant thing for me personally, I didn't take it really well at that point. Even though in hindsight it looks like a good change for me. But moving from sales, which is like you are directly accountable for revenue sales bringing dollars is much different respect than being a passive marketing player. So, I mean, every sales guy would resonate with that. 

Krishna Kumar N
(46:40):

Like active on the field is one thing which whether they like it I mean whether it's stressful or not stressful, liking, loving different things, but that gives a different sort of a high. So moving to marketing means it's more passive and rather you're not in the limelight and you don't get that kick of closing customers and things like that. So probably all of this played out and my mind, and even though I was very reluctant, but because this is something which came from the senior management, I took the, took up that role and I switched to marketing career. So that was the first move from sales to marketing that happened probably like five, six years back now. Yeah, that's how my marketing journey started. 

Krishna Kumar N
(47:30):

So to build a good narrative for Prodapt and its services and to build a bigger brand for them and to get into newer things which were not doing earlier. So yeah, quite a few milestones. Personally I was happy about which I was managed to be part of those successful pursuits. From the marketing side, we won the first time, we won an industry award from TM Forum for a specific client engagement. That was something which is very rewarding because that's the standards body for telecom and this is the first time we are winning it along with the customer. So it was a big deal and quite a few milestones like that happen during that part of the marketing journey with Prodapt. 

Krishna Kumar N
(48:18):

So lot of, even though I am not a career marketer, but within like two and half years and lot of exposure happened from inside sales to email marketing to brand transformation to website transformation, we did quite a lot of activities at that time and the management was very supportive because they invested quite a lot at that point of time to elevate from one orbit to the next level. And yeah, I think I would say I was fortunate to be part of that. Part of the marketing journey because I know how it was earlier, but during that three year, three and a half years, it was very transformational. The marketing team message, the focus from the leadership and the exposure that it created, the opportunities that it opened up and all the accomplishments that came after that. 

Mita Mandawker
(49:09):

Yeah, that's quite a start to your marketing career. But it sounds exciting. You got to do so many things over there that was, that was indeed a turning point in your career. 

Krishna Kumar N
(49:25):

But yeah, I think there is a lot more to come. So, you know, not sure like how many more turning points are there but yeah, definitely it is one of the big milestones, you can say. I mean, yeah, if engineering to sales was one big milestone then. This is another big milestone, because I've been in sales for almost, like a decade or so, and then I switched to this new road. 

Mita Mandawker
(49:51):

Very true. I recall one more thing from our conversation earlier. Like, when you were at Prodapt and you were working on some marketing projects, you worked very closely with Indranil Chakraborty, and he has been a huge personal influence on you as well, because he rekindled that interest in storytelling. So. And that's kind of impacted your career journey to this day as well. Maybe it started off a little earlier, because right now, you are into business storytelling. You work with clients to do that. So can we just get a little more into that? 

Krishna Kumar N
(50:33):

When I made the switch to marketing, it was quite natural that I need to upskill myself, that area. So I undertook some writing courses because that's a key now. And although I was writing on the side for my own thing, but I also wanted to learn it professionally. So I invested in myself and I did a writing retreat with Himalayan Writing Retreat at that point of time. So that gave some basic structure. Like, you have been writing, but learning writing, doing it in a more, defined manner and things like that. There is a lot of other advances. So that was one thing that I picked up. Because now you're leading a team. 

Krishna Kumar N
(51:25):

I didn't want to repeat the mistake of what I did with El Forge. That point of time, there was no other scope. But this time, I really wanted to upskill, and I wanted to know the nuances of marketing and how to narrate stuff, technology solutions, in a more. In a more convincing manner. That creates impact. So I started reading a lot of books and stuff like that related to marketing. And then, yeah, you also watch through YouTube and things like that. So I think in one of the instances through YouTube or somewhere, I got to watch Indranil's speech on business storytelling, which led me to buy his book Stories at Work. And I also read that book, and that was quite a few. 

Krishna Kumar N
(52:17):

It opened up my mind and to the various ways in which narratives could be done in a business context. So that was really a very good exposure. Like, the book gave me a good foundation. It also happened that we have management off site every year in Prodapt. So I proposed his name, and the management accepted, and they had conversations with him. There was a session by him to the senior leadership team on the importance of storytelling, the website architecture and things like that. So I think the management also liked that. Whatever the ideas and concepts he proposed and which led to conversion, that hiring him as consultant for our brand transformation in which I was closely involved working and also the website transformation, both the things happened in parallel and we got a lot of inputs. 

Krishna Kumar N
(53:16):

I worked along with him and I along with the senior management in defining that stuff for Prodapt. So that was a very defining period. Or you can say that there was a one good exposure. So along with that book, I also read multiple other books, but he was very close in India. And yeah, you get to work with somebody who has already done that and somebody doing that for different other brands and yeah, it gave me a good exposure, good foundation on business storytelling and I also the opportunity to work with him. So, which definitely added value to my own area of work and that's something which I'm taking it forward. 

Krishna Kumar N
(54:01):

I think the seed and spark was there, but this work and a lot of other established leaders in this field, their work, all of that, influenced me in a much in a more impactful manner. So, yeah, which prompted me to take up this as a specialization that I wanted to pursue in the next leg of my journey. So, yeah, I think that definitely played a role. 

Mita Mandawker
(54:32):

It's so heartening to hear that. I think it's like full circle. You were always interested in writing. I know that we did not touch on that part during the conversation, but during that initial conversation, I recall it very strongly that, here is a guy who has been very keen on writing. He enjoys the whole process and the whole idea of it. And then life has kind of come to pull circle now doing what, you know. So I think that's serendipity at work, maybe. 

Krishna Kumar N
(55:04):

True. Yeah, I think whatever you are good at, right. It will come and help you or rescue in some instances and you feed it in other instances. So it's also something which you give and you take. Like it's a resource that you feed into and then you fed, you also nurture it at different points. So I had been having that, interest and, yeah, passion since my school days. So there will be some phases in which I go very hard on that. Like very, I mean, write more. More consistently and things like that the last 20 years. And then there were periods where it was very quiet and then I again pick it up something. 

Krishna Kumar N
(55:55):

But at least the last few years I had been, okay, this is something which can get us money and things like that. Now we are convinced that lot of people who have done that and yeah, naturally you also read and you also get a lot of other exposure. Like the term creator. Creator economy. All of that is very new. Maybe in the last four or five years, but before that nobody had that. Right. So yeah, I think market also plays a major role. 

Mita Mandawker
(56:24):

Moving on to the next part of your journey. After spending a great chunk of time with established companies, established brands, you later on moved to working into your very first startup, which was iMocha, and you were the very first brand marketing hire there. You led brand marketing over there. So what was your experience like working at a very different setup altogether and leading efforts from ground up? I would love to hear about that. 

Krishna Kumar N
(56:56):

Startup and SaaS has been a very much something which I wanted to pursue and it was an area which was interesting for me quite some time. But yeah, I never worked in such an environment. So when this opportunity came, so it was a no brainer. So that I had been there with Prodapt for eight years and I really wanted to try something new. And this came in and Amit Mishra, who is the founder of iMocha, is a firm believer of again, storytelling and the impact brand on the product and the overall company itself. So it was very nice to be associated with him because when you have the CEO who is a firm believer of marketing and brand and storytelling, so you don't have a lot of challenges which other marketers generally face. 

Krishna Kumar N
(57:48):

Like approving the ROI and stuff like that. But again, all those were there. But the point is he was himself a convinced marketer and storyteller. So that played a lot of, very good influence on my impact on the company itself on the work. So, yeah, I mean, because there has been some fundraise and they were in a growth path. They had been making iMocha was making quite a lot of people investments and to accelerate the growth and to get to the new next orbit, which was quite natural. And there was also in between we also played a pivot. We did a pivot from a product positioning standpoint, product itself, from a product. I mean, standpoint itself, there was a switch that was made. So in that also quite a lot of work went from brand marketing side. 

Krishna Kumar N
(58:43):

So it was a very interesting assignment because building a team from ground up and that too. It was the first all hundred percent remote sort of a role. It was a very good and very good learning experience working in a SaaS company, product software. HR tech was a new industry altogether for me. I'd been in the telecom software services all the while. So HR, selling to HR leaders, although I worked in a lot of these HR projects in Prodapt from a branding standpoint and other things, employee branding and things. But selling to HRs is something which I have not done. So it was very useful. 

Krishna Kumar N
(59:22):

Like when you explore a different industry altogether, different problem, you are solving for the people side of the company and, yeah, I mean, accelerating the growth in the social media, building thought leadership. We launched several initiatives. We collaborated with brands to bring out thought leadership articles and reports. So we participated in multiple events. We worked with analyst relations and analysts, top leading analyst, of which a lot of the results are coming out now, even though I'm not there. But a lot of groundwork happened at that point of time. And yeah, I think all of that was a very good learning experience. Building a team from scratch and taking it to a stage where it is really making some business impact. Brand making business impact is something which everyone wants to do, but not everyone has the positions or the things to do it. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:00:23):

So in a way were able to do that in some, to some extent during my round of two years of stint there in iMocha. 

Mita Mandawker
(01:00:35):

It's a pretty exciting journey as well. I think experiencing a new setup, a new industry, and also getting, I think there's nothing exciting for a marketer to work with leadership who gets marketing, who gets storytelling is an advocate of doing that. So I think it's a, it sounds like a very interesting time out there. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:00:56):

Yeah, of course. It was a very good experience. The people, it is very different culture altogether, very fast in making decisions like a startup, and I mean quite a lot of things, right, like, from a people standpoint, leadership standpoint, exposure standpoint, different marketing teams working together to make some impact and on a larger initiative, company initiative, things like that. So, yeah, I think because it is one of the smallest companies that I worked, I was also known to multiple people, so different other angles also, I had explored personally with some of the sales pursuits. I helped in some instances. So things like that actually was a very good exposure and good learning also. 

Mita Mandawker
(01:01:54):

I think you moved on from iMocha a couple of months ago and you're right now on a sabbatical, you're taking a break, and you are doing your own personal projects at the moment. But I think one thing that I would really like to dive into is you mentioned a passion for writing throughout your career. You've taken it on and off, depending on the bandwidth, what was happening in life at that point of time. But I would like to understand how did you leverage the storytelling and that content creation skills to overcome some initial challenges in your early marketing career when you started off? I think because it's been in your service, I think ever since you started working in marketing. 

Mita Mandawker
(01:02:39):

Like even when you were in South Africa trying to develop a new market with social selling or you know, reaching out by yourself, doing a cold outreach to publications to make sure that, you know, you're getting some space for product out there, their publications. So how can we dive a little more into it? 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:03:01):

So see, I think marketers generally, there are two different marketers, right? Like we know that there is a generalist and that's a specialist. So, and I pursued a different career path into marketing with conversation from, I came from sales into marketing. So naturally you have to have some strength because it's very difficult to survive as a generalist for a long period of time. Once you reach the leadership level, it's a different thing. But when you are in the execution side of that level, it's better you know some stuff, right? Like basically about marketing. So one is theoretical concepts, then the other is the how you are going to execute it. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:03:46):

So from that standpoint, definitely writing plays a major role because in the digital world, you put out content in a different formats and then it helps tell a story about the product or the solutions that you are trying to sell. And it also helps you to build a brand. It can be an email draft sequence for lead generation, or it can be a thought leadership piece of content, or it can be a social media content for brand awareness, things like that. So there are multiple angles to it, but understanding the technology or the solution that you are selling itself, and then the other is articulating it. So my strength was like, okay, because I had been in the sales side and been interfacing with customers. So that intelligence and knowledge was very helpful because that is really important. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:04:42):

Which most of the times marketers, because they switch industries, they switch different roles and things like that too often sometimes they fail to understand the domain experience, expertise, they fail to gain the domain experience and expertise. And if that is there, then when you club that with your inherent skill of writing, it makes a potent mix, actually. And I think now there are quite a few people whom we can look up to who are doing really well in articulating it better. So that's a different. That's the next stage, I would say. So understanding domain is something which I think people have to invest time on to learn. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:05:24):

And then when they combine their skill of writing, then it's a journey that you can take, and then you can look up to people who are already ahead of the journey, who are doing it really well and things like that. So that's something which I would say is an important way to progress about and that career. 

Mita Mandawker
(01:05:43):

I would like to come to the final part of the conversation right now and that would be around. So you've had an exciting, unconventional career journey. So what are the takeaways that you would like to share with listeners who are probably in shoes similar to yours right now, having their own non linear career paths, or you are considering career transitions? Because a lot of folks are quite hesitant to make a switch, maybe due to fear or uncertainty. So what are your takeaways? Or what advice would you like to give? 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:06:20):

I think the fear or fear of uncertainty is. For sure there is different thing that is there. But what one can do is take probably one step at a time. And if you are working within a company, making a career transition within the company is much better than switching from a company to company during which you are making a. Trying to make a career transition. Because that time, the selling your thing becomes sometimes may become a challenge. But within a company, if you're trying to transition, it could be much better. So you may have to. I mean, if somebody is looking at a career transition, looking from one domain to another, things like that, it's worth considering that option first. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:07:04):

If that doesn't work out, then probably the second option is when you switch a company, you make an entire career. But apart from that, being curious. I mean, how you learn about a new domain if you're not being curious. So that's something which I think that's a trait somebody has to have and also the importance to upskilling, for example. Right. Learning stuff. So curiosity and upskilling. Because these days, every job or role, a lot of studies have said that every three to four years, every job role skills are changing. The skills that are needed for a social media manager, pre GenAI versus post GenAI is totally different. A lot of changes have happened like that. Every job role is going through multiple transitions. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:07:57):

And every three to four years, the skills that are needed to perform a job role is changing. So the constant need to upskill is going to be there and it's better somebody does that proactively rather than being pushed to do it and then being curious about stuff. Like in any domain, you want to pursue anything that you are not familiar with. I think being curious is something which is definitely because I was a quizzer during my college, in school and college days, that curiosity has been there since beginning to learn new things and stuff like that. But it can be anybody for any others also, they can inculcate that. So I would say curiosity being ready to upskill and learn new things and time with the career transition move in the right manner looking at their situation.

Krishna Kumar N
(01:08:50):

And depending upon their individual situation, the company, the opportunities, I would say that, okay, make a cautious move. 

Mita Mandawker
(01:09:01):

That's great advice. I'm sure it's going to be extremely helpful and much needed for a lot of folks listening to this particular episode. I think to wrap this up, would you like to do like a final reflection on your career journey or anything else that you would like to share with the listeners? 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:09:23):

Well, I think God has been kind. That's all I can say. Because every career pivot that I had been taken, sometimes I had taken at times where I was not comfortable, which was forced,or it came along the way and I picked it up. But even otherwise, whenever I have thought, okay, why not I try this, there was an opportunity that came knocking. I think that's something that is beyond me, right? Like one and a half years after Godrej, there was a need for me to look out because I was not really settled there. But it came the opportunity knocking, came knocking my door. Not one, but a two job roles. So as there. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:10:07):

So I think being prepared for that and doing some good things for people, build a good network, I think probably that also has helped me because in multiple instances that has helped me open doors. I think the Avaya was one great example as well as the opportunity with Aricent also came through an alumni. So, I mean, not always you need to apply and get a (role). Now there are more opportunities that come through references and it is easier to convert and you also get a better benefit and they also get a good find, all of that. So, yeah, networking is something which I would say whatever is comfortable, at whatever level at which you are comfortable, somebody has to pursue networking at all levels. Yeah, I think that's something which has helped me. 

Mita Mandawker
(01:11:01):

Great. That's such a lovely note to wrap up the conversation on. Krishna, once again, thank you so very much for taking time to share your journey so graciously, so open heartedly with me and the listeners. I'm sure your story, your journey is going to provide so many helpful points and inspiration to so many listeners. So thank you once again for, you know, taking time and doing this with me. 

Krishna Kumar N
(01:11:31):

Thank you Mita for this opportunity. I hope I have not bored, but yeah, I think I was really happy and to be part of this show and appreciate your time and effort to do this. Yeah, I'm looking forward.