From Sales Pro to Fractional CMO, Being a Marketing 'Marwadi & more | Sonesh Prakash

This transcript has been lightly edited for brevity.

Mita Mandawker: Hello, and welcome to Ctrl + Alt + Marketing. I'm your host, Mita Mandawker. My guest today is Sonesh Prakash, a marketing leader who has always been ahead of the curve. As CEO of CMO Outsourced, Sonesh was a fractional CMO before it was even a thing, and a digital nomad since 2014. This year, he was also recognized as a brand leader by the World Marketing Congress.

We dive into his 18 year career, discuss frugality, solopreneurship, and a lot more. His insights on experimenting and finding your niche are invaluable for marketers looking to a startup. I'm thrilled for you to hear his insights and his story. Let's meet Sonesh. So Sonesh, can you tell our listeners a little bit about your early life?

Mita Mandawker: How were things growing up and how did you end up in marketing?

Sonesh Prakash: Okay. Hello folks. Uh, so thanks Mita for having me, uh, on this podcast and, uh, it's, it's great. And, uh, you know, it's been an interesting journey for me.

Uh, you know, I come from a B2B sales background. Uh, I mean, uh, I I've had nearly 8 years of experience post doing my, uh, masters in management. And, uh, you know, I started in different industry verticals, uh, be it, uh, you know, uh, uh, market, be it software, uh, finance I mean, banking, uh, HR and quite a few other verticals. And then those ATS, uh, they were primarily mostly on enterprise sales. And, um, to be to be to be honest, I was a bit disillusioned with my career because, uh, I had hopes like many marketing graduates.

Uh, I had hopes that I'll probably end up in marketing, but marketing jobs are not that, uh, you know, especially when the time I graduated, uh, you know, from my MBA, I mean, digital marketing was still in its infancy. I'm talking about 2,006 and there were not too many marketing roles. And, uh, you know, typically marketing roles were usually, uh, you know, very, I mean, companies were picky and choosy and so on and so forth. And you usually ended up getting, uh, you know, a lot of sales roles post your MBA. It was also another other thing which is happening was the startup ecosystem was starting off and it was growing.

So around 2008, 2009 Mumbai, where I live and I've always been, um, but saw a lot of interesting meetups, uh, you know, starting 2,008, 9 around startups. So I used to frequent a lot of these meetups and I used to, you know, come in contact with a lot of startup founders and I realized that I need to, I intend to kind of do something in this space as a consultant. Uh, maybe not have my own, necessarily my own startup, but maybe as a solopreneur or as a consultant, you know, associated with multiple startups as such. So, um, as I kept on, you know, kind of, uh, going to such events, I realized that, uh, there is a lack of marketing support ecosystem, uh, when it comes to B2B companies. And, uh, be it any be it large, small, midsize, you know, they are fairly underserved as a category because the majority of the marketing ecosystem is focusing focusing on B2C.

So I thought I thought that this is kind of a blue ocean of sorts and this 1 talking about, uh, uh, 2010, 11. And, uh, you know, so so what I did was it was there in the back of my mind that I forgot something in this area. So, um, uh, 2014 is where I took the leap of faith. You know, uh, I had savings. I had, uh, you know, fortunately, since I stay with my parents, I've always been, there is no, uh, you know, uh, issues of rent and EMI and all that stuff that, you know, it helps or not.

Because if you have those kinds of challenges and, you know, startup or entrepreneurship takes a backseat. So I think, uh, you know, I would say the universe has been kind that way is that, uh, I had the luxury of, uh, experimenting and, uh, you know, that phrase, jee le apni zindagi (life your life), you know, thing which I could do. And, uh, you know, so yeah. So I I I took the leap of faith and, um, uh, I think a few things which I realized I was a little confident about myself was, um, I, um, I'm good at networking. Uh, my sales, uh, you know, kind of, uh, experience helped me a lot.

I write as a hobby. Um, I, uh, I used to do creative writing, I mean, comic strips, poetry and so and so forth. I do have a creative bent in mind and I thought that that will help me in my, uh, you know, uh, uh, ability to, you know, blue cotton marketing for B2B, which is fairly, uh, serious and apparently boring category by by a lot of people. And, uh, also, um, I, um, you know, I, uh, you know, I I network very, very, uh, I'm as I said that I was good at networking. I was I understood digital marketing because, uh, even though I didn't do a course, but I used to hustle my way through.

I used to, you know, uh, you know, read a lot of, uh, you know, books, online blogs and so on and so forth. So it actually helped me build up my, uh, you know, confidence in this medium. So, uh, in a way I hustled my way through, uh, the 1st 2, 3 years, you know, getting projects And that's where the networking bit helped because I used to keep on visiting a lot of these events and, uh, you know, talking about my experience and so on and so forth. And I think, uh, that journey also initially took 2, 3 years. 1st 2, 3 years, I built various projects.

I remember I started off, uh, you know, in, um, you know, you're doing some consulting in the UI UX space, not only core design because I'm not a designer, but in the interviewing space. So I understood a few nuances of what goes in UI UX research at the research stage. And, uh, you know, also, uh, I helped a few, um, companies. Uh, 1 of my first clients sort of very large US based company, but they're India armed. And, uh, um, you know, uh, I got to know of this guy who was heading sales for that company and they didn't have any marketing support in their India office because their US office used to mostly look after the international, uh, you know, marketing and India wasn't really given too much, uh, handholding.

So over there, that's where my journey began, wherein even though it was a small kind of role, uh, I helped their team in setting up some email campaigns towards their customers, uh, you know, uh, started using submissions like Mailchimp. This I'm talking about 2015 not in 2014 for that matter. And, uh, and that's when my slowly and steadily my journey to as a content marketer began. And since then, uh, you know, I guess I've been working, I've worked with nearly 30 odd companies in varying capacities. Um, so it started off with doing, you know, content marketing campaigns, uh, writing blogs, histories.

I mean, basically the whole log around content for b to b companies to, uh, you know, in a way, hustling my way through and, uh, you know, kind of, uh, you know, uh, wearing the hat of a virtual CMO over a period of time. So I realized that, uh, uh, you know, uh, content, uh, having the ability to write content and, uh, uh, you know, uh, think about repurposing content. And, uh, I mean, basically wearing the hat of a journalist of, you know, in a in a in a B2B, uh, space really helps a lot because I guess it's all about stories. And, uh, unlike b b2c, which is largely driven by creative campaigns already, yes, you can do, uh, you know, get a bit creative. But I think within b to b, it's largely driven by facts and figures and you can be a bit creative around that, but then it's largely driven by, uh, you know, uh, content, uh, around your brand, around your product, around your service, uh, and a lot of long form content which can be consumed in this manner.

So that's where, uh, I think my experience in writing and my passion for writing also helped in a way. And, uh, yeah. I mean, I guess even now, um, a lot of my work revolves around communication. The other aspects of actual execution of campaigns and all, I usually end up outsourcing it or in opening people, you know, as an unrequired. So, um, so yeah.

So that's broadly been my journey and I think, uh, you know, um, uh, I would say that, uh, from the I mean, to all to people who are listening and wanna get into this b 2 b marketing space, I think 1 thing, uh, which has worked for me and I think which is working for many marketers is the ability to create content. Uh, because the other things can actually, uh, be, uh, outsourced or, uh, you know, um, you can have a network, but then content strategy is something which remains a fulcrum.

Mita Mandawker: Got it. And I think that's a solid start. It's very interesting to know that you were always very keen on getting into marketing.

But, uh, at that point of time when you started your career and actually, as a matter of fact, even when I started my career, uh, for anyone to get into marketing was quite difficult. Even if you were doing your MBA, you need to, you had to be from a certain tier of college to get especially into, like, b to c kind of marketing. Normally, a lot of jobs started off as BD or maybe in sales. So, uh, I think that part of your journey definitely resonates. I think startups have definitely leveled the playing field when it came to, you know, getting into marketing roles now.

And that's a very welcome trend over the last few years. I think 1 thing that I would really like to understand is, uh, you mentioned once during our call, uh, earlier that, you know, you have very strong affinity with sales because you have worked in sales yourself. And that has really helped you even right now in your role as a fractional CMO, a CMO who works with multiple, uh, companies, multiple startups, multiple industries. And normally people are very, uh, especially like, you know, folks in marketing are not as keen to get into the sales side of things. Would you just share your experience around that?

Sonesh Prakash: So, um, you know, um, being in sales definitely helped. It helped me if I were to put 1 word, it helped me empathize better with the sales team. And in B2B, uh, marketing ends up being more of a support function for a sales team in a way. Okay. Uh, it cannot work in silos unlike B2C, you know, because B2C marketing has an identity of its own, you know, and they can pretty much, uh, you know, be a siloed function and still feel, you know, have a separate identity.

And in in in b to b marketing, again, depending on the nature of the medium, it has to be because, you know, uh, sales cycles are long and it's largely sales driven. You are not necessarily facing the, you know, customer facing, you are most mostly in the background. Um, your job is to ensure that the salesperson's life is smooth Because in the entire sales journey, uh, you know, it could be anywhere in 3 to 6 months or 9 months, depending on the kind of product you're selling and the value of the product, you know, the buying committee involved. So, uh, in that case, uh, if you have been through the grind yourself, you understand and empathise better with the team, you try to speak their language, uh, you mirror the challenges opportunities in your content as well. And that is what, uh, you know, helps you, uh, you know, uh, gain confidence and, uh, you know, the the the relevant, uh, the relevancy in in in the content.

Uh, so I think that is what, uh, helped me, uh, in my, uh, journey. And it still helps me, uh, I guess, uh, you know, because I think as a solopreneur, you end up with wearing multiple ads. Right? You are your sales you are a sales guy, you are a marketing guy, you are operations HR admin, whatever you call it. And in a way you have to do everything.

So, uh, so I guess that in a way, I would say that every everybody should start off their, uh, you know, journey in entrepreneurship by being a solopreneur and then kind of, you know, slowly, steadily, uh, uh, if you want to scale, you know, scale it up accordingly. But then I think once you, uh, realize that you have to you are in that hustle mode, uh, for a year or 2, you will be able to learn a lot more, you know, about, uh, what are your capabilities and what what where do you where will you exactly need, uh, you know, uh, support. And, uh, you know, even if you let's say are building a business and if you want to want a cofounder, it's always good to know where you are what what what aspects of you are, uh, you know, can be complemented. For example, somebody who's good in sales um, and, uh, you know, marketing, he would probably not be that great in necessarily in tech. So let's say if you are thinking of, um, building a product, so you're only probably, you know, find a cofounder who's who's in, uh, who's in tech and you can complement the skills.

So that's how typically things work. Similarly, over here in my journey, the reason I gave this example is, uh, so as I'm working as a virtual CMO, obviously, um, you know, I'm not really adept or I'm not really keen on doing everything in marketing. It's an ocean. So what I do is I carefully curate partners who could be individuals or, uh, you know, uh, agencies in their own right and bring them in based on the client's, uh, needs and the budgets and their objectives. That's how it is.

So you it's all it's all about co creating along with partners of the journey and ensuring that the client gets the best bang for this matter. That's all.

Mita Mandawker: Makes sense. Makes sense. I think, uh, as a solopreneur, especially the part that you said that you don various hats.

So I think, um, experience as sales comes in extremely handy because, uh, at the end of the day, you're also responsible for getting in business. So that's a very useful skill to have. I think, uh, 1 thing that I would really like to dive into next is, uh, you transitioned from a very structured corporate environment. You worked with some very big brands. And then you moved into, like, a very startup ecosystem, which is a huge change, and that can be challenging.

So what were some initial hurdles that you encountered? And how did you go about, you know, overcoming them?

Sonesh Prakash: So fortunately, as I said, that the universe has been kind. So the most initial hurdle which most people have is, yeah, you know, know, uh, I have so much to kind of shell out every month. Uh, would I be able to kind of so that insecurity was less.

I mean, obviously, it is there because you're leaving everything, but there was less for me because, you know, I didn't have issues with respect to where the next meal is gonna come from or with, you know, what, uh, you know, what will happen if my savings run off or run out after 6 months or so. Nothing. I mean, I had enough savings and and I think what really matters, and I I have I have shared it in public forums as well that I'm a very frugal person. Okay. Uh, frugality is is something which I guess I I am just size I would say that I'm best and I think I I'm happy to, uh, you know, uh, to to have to won't have that many desires, which makes me which gets me in a position that I can actually experiment a lot with my career in life.

Because, uh, even now let's say, uh, I make I mean, I I need x and I'm making 5 x. So I guess that is a good space to have, but that 5 x maybe very, very less for regular people. Okay? So I'm just saying that I'm just giving an example that, uh, frugality makes a lot of difference, uh, in frugality in your view of approach and apparently also it helps me in my in my, um, in my role as a marketer because marketing, unfortunately, is not associated with frugality. Uh, it's always as a function, it's always, uh, you know, suggest you know, you know, I'm just sorry I'm breaking into Hindi in between.

But typically, uh, the whole, uh, you know, the question where we are asked is, okay, why are you why do you need so much budgets? Why can't we, you know, do it in a, uh, you know, in a cheaper manner or in a, you know, in a much, um, lesser budget? And I guess the very fact that I look at, uh, my life in a frugal manner, I can actually I start thinking from my client side that where it can, you know I become like a Marwadi of sorts. Right? Uh, that I how can I, uh, you know, get the best bang for the for the buck for this client and the least amount possible?

So that is my approach and, uh, it has worked for me and clients have appreciated that. They always, uh, you know, I mean, I don't think any client has used who's worked with me. I said that, you know, he's wasted budgets or whatever. He's so that is that is the whole idea. In fact, when I when I curate my vendors also, I don't necessarily I have extremes, you know, I usually give that, uh, you know, um, uh, suggestion to my client as well that, listen, um, if you want if you want a 5 star hotel, this is the company.

If you want a 3 star hotel, this is the company. If you want a, you know, 1 star or whatever, launch, this is the company. And so this, giving them this perspective, is also something which they appreciate, that you're giving them perspective. Because usually what happens is I you know, sometimes clients confuse me as an agency, which I'm not. So I tell them, listen.

I am your external arm. Uh, agency has no, um, knee has no, um, you know, what do you call there is there is no need for an agency to give you a lot of options because they are right. They will earn money from you only when the returner is high. It goes high. Okay.

And it goes higher for that matter. And also the more media budget you spend, the the better the commissions they get. Right? So their their, uh, you know, their their interest is not to save save money for you. Okay?

And my interest is since I am getting a fixed retainer from you, typically, my interest to ensure is that you get the best bang for the buck. You are paying me for my time. I'm ensuring that. My my, uh, responsibility is to ensure that you get the best bang for the buck. So that's that's what my objective is.

So I I just thought I'll just give you this because this background also is important, uh, to, uh, you know, for me as a journey. And because frugality is the center of the things, I mean, center of the ecosystem. So for me, uh, what what works is also that because I have savings and because of a volatile nature of this profession, uh, it becomes easier to navigate the peaks and troughs. That's how it is. Hope I answered your question.

Mita Mandawker: Super helpful to know. Yep. You definitely have. I think, uh, 1 aspect that I would definitely like to touch upon is yes. Uh, I think the part of your nature that you mentioned that, you know, you're very frugal as a person, and that personal value also extends to the way in which you do your business right now.

Uh, I think 1 thing that I would really like to understand is, uh, so this frugality was 1 part, but, uh, when you work in corporate, things are very structured. There are systems in place. There are processes in place for you to take off as a solopreneur after working in such a structured setup. How was that like, you know, uh, especially Navigate. So right now, we are a solopreneur.

You're responsible for everything. You're supposed to make sure you're getting the best for your clients. You are finding them, uh, the right kind of talent to, you know, bring on board to do certain, uh, parts of the whole, uh, you know, whatever engagement that is there. So how did that, uh, journey go for you? I think, uh, because you started off in 2014 and you started off at a time wherein fractional work or even consultancy as marketing was very it was in its infancy.

So how how did how did, uh, you, you know, translate your, uh, corporate experience into, you know, like a start up marketer?

Sonesh Prakash: Yeah. So, um, as I said that, okay, uh, Peter, again goes back to, uh, what I was good at. Okay. I used to network like crazy.

I still do on and off. Uh, I kind of mellow down a bit, but I used to, uh, be like a, uh, you know, startup butterfly in a way, uh, back in between 2,002, 3rd 2010 to 2014, at least in Mumbai. Okay. There was a phase in my life when, uh, you know, if I'm going to any startup event, uh, it it's very highly likely that I'll probably end up knowing, uh, 5 to 10 people in that event. Okay.

Uh, because of past association or something. So that kind of helped me for a period of time in, uh, you know, people remembering me and then this bald look also kind of, you know, has you know, it makes me stand out in a lot of spaces. So, uh, so yeah. So I guess, uh, that is something which helped me. So networking definitely is 1 the first thing.

2nd is, uh, since I was in a way acquainted with the early, uh, bunch of startups in Mumbai, because I used to keep on frequenting these, uh, you know, events even long before I, uh, thought of leaving the corporate world, there was some kind of comfort already settled that boss Buje Patay, you know, I understand this ecosystem. I understand the way they talk, they think, they feel. And, uh, you know, I think I will be able to navigate by, uh, VRO. 2nd is when I look back at my career, uh, you know, uh, uh, and this is again something, you know, which is it was a realization that when I look back in my career, I started off my journey, boost my MBA with a small company, a digital marketing agency, which is now a part of Publicis Group. They got acquired.

But then, um, you know, it's a company called IndeGo Consulting. Um, they are 1 of the best digital marketing agencies around. In fact, back in 2000 this time I'm talking about 2,006, 7. Okay. Uh, when they were the earliest days of digital marketing wherein only a few good agencies were present who were doing actual, you know, proper work like SEO, SEM, and everything.

So, um, so I started off my career with digital marketing as a client servicing and business development guy. And when I look back at my whole career, I think that that particular small company and the kind of mentorship I had, uh, because I was reporting directly of the director of CEO. And, uh, yeah, I guess, uh, right from this bold, uh, you know, kind of look, which I, you know, got inspired by it from the CEO, I had 2, uh, the knowledge around digital marketing and around pitching and I mean, uh, that I think the learning curve was very steep over there as compared to the other organizations wherein I it were riddled by politics and admin or whatnot. Because the larger the more the bigger the organization you go to, you are just a cog in the wheel. Because there is there are a lot of things which you can't influence and you can't do much.

Whereas if it's a smaller organisation, 50, 100 people strong, you your work is noticed. You you are noticed as a person. You, uh, you know if you are adding value or not. Okay. And that's when I realized that, uh, you know, um, while larger organizations have their own pros, but for somebody like me, it was easy to get lost in these in these companies.

And, uh, I thought that I will do better in a smaller setup and that's what has worked for me. So most of my my own ICP for that matter, uh, I will kindly work with C100 or CZ100 startups, whoever the team of 50 to 100 people. Okay. Uh, max to max. And, uh, I'm usually working closely with the senior management, the CEO, or the, you know, typically the second I mean, ideally the CEO or the top management.

I would have pitched myself to them. They would have seen the value. They would have agreed everything. So so now most of my interactions are with the top brass. So I know where the company is going, where where I'm adding value, where I need to improve.

And, uh, so all these things matter for me, uh, as compared to, uh, you know, my experience in, uh, you know, in larger companies like ICICI Bank or Decor, whatever, I realized that, uh, I was a bit lost over there. And, uh, I wasn't really able to utilize all my skills because, uh, you are easily siloed in a large company. Right? You have to just focus on what you're doing, what function, what whatever that silo function you're doing. Whereas in a smaller setup, it's easier to wear by triple hats and easier to discover yourself.

So which is what happened to me, you know, as as we go as we go. So I mean, you are learning, you are hustling, you are, you know, unless so there is no way to hustle in a large company comparatively. I mean, all process are set. You just need to follow them. You just need to you're not encouraged to think beyond it ideally.

Because it's like, unfortunately, it's like slightly a crap mentality because nobody will encourage innovation. And that's why a lot of large organizations look up to startups for innovation and they want to incubate startups in the this thing. And because they know that within their confines, uh, innovation is limited. So that is what I've realized, uh, you know, in my journey. Again, these these could be personal, uh, observations, but I think they do resonate with quite a few people.

Mita Mandawker: They do they definitely resonate with me. I started off my career with a pretty big brand, and, uh, I had very similar experiences, which is how I ended up at startups later. Uh, I think that whole idea, you know, what you mentioned about trying to find that place wherein you get to grow, where you get to learn, you get to hustle. And it also depends on your individual values. Right?

If that's something that you really enjoy doing, uh, like going above and beyond the work that you've been given, then startups are definitely like the place for you to work. Yeah. So I think all these things tie in frugality because startups not necessarily pay you well. Um, uh, second is, uh, you know, uh, working with smaller companies. Start ups are usually small.

Um, 3rd is, uh, you know, getting freedom to do what you want as in to hustle to test e b test your way to to things. Startups give you that space.

Sonesh Prakash: So a lot of things work for me. I mean, uh, if I look at my, uh, you know, definition of a good workspace or a good work culture, this all these things are, you know, there. Um, uh, also 1 of the biggest things, uh, which made me consider this move is I wanted to be independent, uh, of this space.

So I wanted to work from anywhere. Okay. So there is a term called digital nomad. Right? Which is, uh, which is something doing the rounds.

I mean, I'm talking about I've been a digital nomad since 2014. So, I mean, uh, what I took was, uh, that was the beginning even before WeWork and all came into play. I work I have a membership with this co working space called Regus and, uh, since 2015 for that matter. And, uh, I've been, uh, you know, I have a, like, a, you know, business lounge membership, flexi space membership, which allows me to sit, uh, you know, across their centers globally. Okay.

So I 2019, I was backpacking in Vietnam and I was using the reuse center over there to work. So yeah. So that also as a as a solopreneur, as a start up, uh, you know, enthusiast that that, you know, that kind of acceptability also works. So if I have spent the x in in my entire 7 years already, I would have I would have gained 45 x out of it because of the networks and, you know, opportunities are big. So I think again, this is the reason I'm sharing this is as a solopreneur, a startup founder, or at least a startup founder, it's always booked to set up based in a co working space because you end up leveraging a lot over there as well.

So I used to attend a lot of meetups in co working spaces and so on and so on. That also kind of helped me, uh, you know, go in my journey. Uh, so I've got quite a few clients who have, you know, uh, through this medium as well. I think 1 thing that I would like to understand is you've mentioned so far in our conversation that, you know, networking has been something that you've been very good at. I think you also mentioned, uh, uh, refer to yourself as a startup butterfly.

Uh, so I think I would like to understand is networking is not is not everyone's strength. Actually, uh, a lot of people struggle with it. And, um, it's led you to great opportunities. It's led you to actually, you know, build a life and a career for yourself that works for you. And that was a time wherein digital nomad was not even a term.

So, um, just tell just let's walk a little bit through, you know, how we have approached, uh, the whole networking, how it worked pre COVID, how it's working now. Let's talk a bit about So, um, as I said, I used to frequent a lot of these start up meetups. There were these websites. I mean, the website is still there, but, uh, meetup.com used to be very active back then. And, uh, Facebook, um, events, uh, you know, I used to keep every every morning I used to take a look at what's happening in Mumbai in the startup space and, uh, Facebook event.

Anything around start ups or so and so forth. And, uh, also, um, I, uh, I was active on the end and on and off, uh, you know, uh, keep keeping on writing relevant content around marketing. And, uh, uh, yeah. So I guess all 3, 3, 4 areas really helped a lot, uh, because the ecosystem was small and, uh, you know, more or less you could find the same people coming, uh, I'm talking about 2000 early 2009, 10 when I started going to these events. So in fact, there was I remember, uh, you know, you know, Kunal Shah from CRED.

He used to come he's a mobile IT and he used to come in, you know, when he was building Freecharge back then. Okay. And I remember he asking me that, you know, I'm looking for some dynamic sales professionals for my company. Would you like to join? I I declined respectfully because I was back then working in a larger company.

I think I was working time server day back then. And I was skeptical, you know, startups and so and so forth. Otherwise I could have been easily the top, uh, you know, the first 10 2015 employees of Flipkart for that matter. Sorry Flipkart as a free charge. So yeah.

So I guess, uh, you know, uh, it was an interesting time. Uh, I rubbed shoulders with these guys, these giants who are, you know, you know, big in their respective spaces. And learned a lot from their journey, you know, because, you know, in the initial events you used to, um, there was a series of, uh, good events called the start up Saturday back in, uh, uh, 2008, 9. Um, and and they are not functional now as such as a as a community, but, uh, they used to have these, uh, events at, uh, SPJAN college, um, in SPJAN MBA college inside the campus. And I usually really look forward to it because that was a time and only this apparently, this community was functional in Mumbai as compared to many communities in Bangalore.

So I should really look forward to it and that has added a lot to my journey, including my initial set of clients. And I that was a phase in my life where I was just tried doing multiple things, you know, which made me, uh, I tried my own stand up comedy. I sung direct. I sub direct big time, uh, but this was the earliest, uh, you know, uh, this was this time when Sandip only starting starting off in the country. And, uh, I mean, in a way, I was performing I mean, trying to perform along with the likes of Atul Katri, Rahul Subramanian, and all these guys.

So we are all, you know, contemporaries in a way because we all started off together. Uh, obviously, they were good at what they did, but it was an interesting journey because the reason I'm sharing this is because this also gave me confidence to start speaking in public, uh, not worrying about getting fooled or whatever, and losing my inhibitions as such. And, uh, yeah. So I guess this, uh, I I write poetry. I tried performing poetry also, uh, open men, open mics, and also I think all these, you know, they added to my personality, added to my, um, confidence as an individual, which started showing even in my, um, professional networking, um, engagements.

So, yeah, that's that's something which I I tried doing. I mean, I mean, I I I think everybody all of us have read, uh, you know, uh, that the more you, uh, the more newer, uh, challenges you face and the more you, uh, you know, uh, step out of your comfort zone, uh, you know, the better you get at things. And, uh, it's only it's only for the better. So obviously there are measured risks risks you can take, but, yeah, I think taking risks is only what will help you in the future. So that's how it is.

So, yeah, I think this is, uh, uh, the other few things which helped me during COVID. Uh, interestingly, um, I mean, the Google Universe was trying. My business grew 3x4x because a lot of b to b companies, which erstwhile has had to kind of resort to traditional means like events and, uh, you know, SDRs and, you know, uh, sales sales guys going for cold calls and all, that that all stopped. They had to leverage on digital and that's why some, you know, people like me gained importance. And once they tasted digital, they realized it could be an interesting medium.

So they wanted to continue with it. So, um, so what I'm saying is, um, uh, it was in a in a way an interesting disruption in the B2B space, And a lot of companies, even traditional ones, started adopting digital. And, uh, they got the taste of it and they got realized that it could be a great way to, you know, build a brand in a way. So, yeah, so I guess that is something which help. So, uh, offline, definitely, you can't substitute offline engagement.

So, um, I mean, 1 advice I give to people who are not necessarily, um, the most extroverted lot is that if they, uh, you know, usually in a in a event and I'd said something this has worked for me as well is being vocal in events. Vocal as in, um, not just for the sake of saying things, but asking the right questions when the opportunity arises. So all the ways I try to stand stood out I try to stand out, uh, in events is by asking the right questions or asking questions, uh, when a q and a opportunity was given. So, um, that is something which has helped me and, uh, keeps on keep you know, it has it continues to help me, Uh, is, uh, you know, uh, being a little vocal, uh, during events, uh, not necessarily I would say that, you know, uh, you know, 1 way, uh, I mean, uh, social butterfly is like, okay, you know, is that you're gonna keep on interacting, try to, uh, meet as many people in the room. I used to do that.

But, even as an introvert, if you can just make yourself visible by these things, by not necessarily speaking to everyone in the room, but by just being vocal about your thoughts and opinions around specific subjects. That is 1 of the ways you can, uh, you know, make yourself heard and, uh, differentiate yourself in a crowded whack. So that is something which I would suggest that, uh, you know, people can do. And beyond that, you know, we have platforms like LinkedIn, Facebook and all wherein a lot of introverts can actually share stuff which they otherwise won't in other things. So again, that is something which you know, can be used and a lot of people like me as well used during the lockdown.

And I think it helped. I think, uh, the next thing that I would like to ask is, and you've covered parts and aspects of this in your earlier responses, but, um, you built a career outside of traditional structures, and this was very uncommon back in 2014. At that point of time, you had, like, certain amount of experience sizable experience. So, like, how did you approach, like, this entire unconventional, you know, thought of becoming an external fractional marketing resource and especially within a startup ecosystem? You've answered this question in bits and pieces, but I would really like to revisit it once again.

Sure. So, um, as I was saying that, um, I was wearing multiple hats. I was wearing, uh, hats of, uh, uh, you know, UX researcher of the beginning to, uh, content development guy in the, you know, earlier stage and then content marketing to, uh, see it was more or less the way you pitched yourself. Okay. So you have 1 client who's, uh, you know, uh, considered you as a virtual same month and then you make a case study out of it and then you start pitching yourself, uh, you know, in, uh, in the same manner with the 2 other clients.

And it is all about, you know, creating that 1 template. So I would say that I I do have a winning template of sorts for me. When I say template, a presentation of sorts, uh, which I usually make it as part of my pitch to clients. Okay. Uh, and I always suggest people also when they go for interviews for CMO roles or something, see if you can consider that interview as a pitch, okay, of you as a consultant trying to win their business.

Trust me, your approach towards the interview will change. Proactively tell them that I would like to give you a presentation, okay, after researching about your company and I would like to learn a little bit more about your company and get me get back to you. So that gives you an edge because the client also thinks that, you know, he's interested. He's interested in learning more about my company. He's trying to, uh, spend some time, uh, you know, uh, understanding my company and, uh, you know, sharing his thoughts, however preliminary it might be.

And, uh, in a lot of cases, it has helped me, uh, uh, you know, pitch myself better, uh, being the client, understand my value proposition better, as well as not let them negotiate much. Because once they see through the kind of work you've done for free, uh, and the, you know, remuneration asking, they start seeing the value and they themselves will be hesitant in, you know, negotiating too much. Unless, obviously, you still need a very obnoxiously high amount. That's a separate thing. But, uh, typically, that is my, you know, experience being.

So, so as I said, I hustled my way wearing different hats and to the extent that I could term myself as a team of sorts. Yeah. How did you discover your niche and your ideal client profile? You mentioned that your earlier that your ideal client profile is typically smaller startups, 50 to 100 employees where you directly work with the founders. So that way, you know, you have, like, a direct understanding of how business is growing, how you also get feedback very directly on the work that you're doing.

Can you share some key lessons and milestones in building and growing your successful business because of working with this new So see, um, it's it was like a thing which I stumbled upon internally. I mean, because, uh, you know, a few of my initial clients were software companies. Okay. And I realized that I'm more comfortable speaking that language, uh, because I was interested in that space. I kept on reading around that and, uh, you know, the fact that I had a BSc Computer Science degree even though I have not even written, uh, 1 proper code I mean, a code a piece of code.

But still, because I understand the software and I had that background at Plus an MBA, uh, made some difference also in my understanding. I used to read I mean, I I should read a lot in that domain at least from a, you know, technology and marketing standpoint. Uh, so that kind of helped me in empathizing better with the software domain And that could, uh, also be seen in my interest in, you know, pitching more and learning more about the subject. So that is what, uh, over a period of time happened that, you know, since of my because of a background interest, I used to pitch more. I used to, you know, um, stand out in the software side of things.

And I realized that that is an area which is anyways is under underserved. So it might as well, you know, focus on that. And they pay you well as well comparatively. You know, as compared to traditional b to b or manufacturing domain, they pay you well as well. So it is a function of a lot of things.

Mita Mandawker: Yep. Got it. And I think, uh, so 1 other part of it, like, I think you've already mentioned that, you know, frugality, uh, has been at the center of everything that you've done, and you provide a lot of value to your clients. That that has been a very important part of, you know, as value as a person and value that you bring to clients. I think 1 thing that I would like to get into is, uh, uh, this is right now, when you started off, it was not a very differentiated market, uh, so to speak.

I think you would have been 1 of those few players offering these kind of services. Now it's become very, very, uh, congested, so to speak. A lot of people are venturing into consultancy. They're venturing into the factional side of things. So what is it that, you know, you need?

And in a way, that's bringing in challenges in your career as well. Uh, so how do you approach this particular problem statement? You know, how do you make sure that, you know, you're standing apart, uh, in the value that you're providing to your clients? What's the differentiation like this? So, um, as I said, the the ICP itself is a competitive new differentiator.

So within B2B SaaS also, I primarily work with enterprise B2B SaaS, wherein the sales cycles are longer, ACVs are very high, and, uh, um, you know, uh, by now I've worked with DNI all I mean, I've worked with Fintech, uh, IoT, uh, Renewable Tech, Ad Tech, Martech. I mean, more or less on the techs kind of covered in a way. So, uh, that also helps me, uh, you know, kind of, uh, uh, empathize better with people in the technology domain. Okay. So, um, so yeah.

So I guess, uh, it's a matter of experience and the matter of, uh, uh, you know, as I said that, you know, uh, since I since I bring a bit of sales, so 1 of the things which I differentiate is also that I can I can actually be an extended sales arm also for some people if I have the network in that area? So I have got more than 20,000 connections on LinkedIn. That also, in a way, sometimes helps people, you know. Um, so, yeah, so I guess that is that that as well as combined with this uh, initial first mover advantage of sorts comparatively to, uh, you know, being able to wear the sales hat if required to. Uh, because as I said, that sales and marketing are complementary services in b 2 b.

Uh, so I think all these things play an important role. And unlike B2C, uh, you have to master 2, 3 platforms on in B2B. You have you have to understand LinkedIn, email, uh, you know, uh, SEO and SEM for that matter for a lot of b 2 b companies is tricky. Okay. Uh, so I often end up, uh, not using that, uh, this thing because most of my clients are verticalized enterprise B2B SaaS wherein their search warrants are very low, and it doesn't make sense for them to invest too much in that.

So then I focused my, uh, energies on 2, 3 platforms and that's what I kind of do for my clients. So I think, uh, largely it has been focus as well as, you know, the other factors which are mentioned. Yeah.

Mita Mandawker: You've been solopreneur for the last 9 years. Uh, and a lot of people right now, whenever I speak with anyone, uh, especially who are in the early stages of career and you and I ask them that, you know, what is it that you want to do in maybe next few years?

The answer always is I want to start a business of my own, or I want to do my own thing. I don't want to work anymore for anyone. Uh, I think 1 thing that a lot of people don't have very concretely in their minds is what is it that they would like to do next? So as a entrepreneur, as a solopreneur who's been doing this for a while, what advice would you give to these folks who are still, you know, at that figuring out stage? How do they go about, you know, getting how do they go about figuring out what is it that they should, you know?

How do they find their next passion or their next, uh

Sonesh Prakash: You stumble stumble upon it. Yeah. So I mean, just give yourself space and do multiple things. I mean, the only way you can figure it figure things out is by doing many things. Okay.

As I said, there was a phase wherein I was doing multiple things, you know. Uh, there was there were times when I used to think that I can become a standard comedian. But then I over a period of time, I realized that, uh, you know, I suck at it even though that helped me in some ways, but it does I did suck at it. Um, you know, so but then having said that, uh, you know, I remember, you know, me I would credit myself for bringing and also the name of the because, well, you know, he he got his first gig, uh, you know, he's sort of, like, close friend, but he was an acquaintance, uh, you know, to I remember 2014, somebody introduced me on Facebook and and told him that, you know, told me that this guy is good and you should probably take him to an open mic. So I I got him, I mean, his first open mic and obviously then the rest is history.

So I'm just saying that, uh, you know, I tried various things. I subbed that many or was video core or missing many, but I'm happy that I tried. And during that trial phase, I, uh, you know, um, uh, you know, kind of discovered a lot about myself, which I would have otherwise not discovered. So I think, uh, what people need to do is keep on trying, keep on hustling. And or a good friend, they even realize they will stumble upon things which, uh, you know, they would have not otherwise stumbled upon.

That's how it is. So whatever your interest lie, whatever, you know I mean, again, it's easier for me to say because fortunately, I could do that. I mean, and as I said, the universe was kind and I've only got only a credit towards the universe that I was, you know, able to do it. But in whatever way possible without necessarily leaving your job and I didn't leave my job before I had some, you know, faith in my self in some way. Um, so yeah, so I guess with, you know, fortunately we are living in a world wherein doing 3 things is possible, especially if you're single and if you are not, uh, you know, having other kind of responsibility and parity.

So till the time you are in your twenties or your twenties or, you know, you're single, you can actually you have more time in your hands compared to. So I think you can you can try and do various things. If you are a creative person, then try doing various things within the creative medium. Experiment with your creativity. And again, we are living in a world which has creativity can be so enhanced with the likes of JB Tea or now Sura and I don't know whatnot.

So I think, um, you know, even with noncreative, you know, people, this is enabling them to be creative. Right? So I guess, uh, I think it's just a matter of experimenting and figuring out what works. I mean, if there's a possibility you can work pro bono with a startup. So, um, what I'm saying is, uh, that is what I think worked for me and I think that is how the typical process of discovery happens.

There's I don't think this is a very linear process. You have to keep on trying, keep on doing different things. But if you don't know different things, you will not learn or not discover yourself. That's how it is. Understood.

Mita Mandawker: Uh, I think next thing that I would like to understand is before I like, uh, before we wind up this conversation is, uh, I think a lot of people these days, especially folks who are in their very early stages of career, I get asked this, uh, you know, juniors in the team of I want do I get into, like, a specialization mode early on, or should I go about exploring, like, more broader avenues? Maybe they're, you know, they're working right now in growth, and they're wondering if they should directly jump into product marketing or should they just work in marketing in general. They're very confused about, you know, generalist versus specialist. Would love to understand your take on it and what's your experience now.

Sonesh Prakash: As I said, my, uh, wire experience, in fact, has always been, um, in a way in a way, you know, a stumbling upon a discovery kind of a thing.

Right? So I started off with something. I did wear various hats because of whatever reasons. And then, uh, you know, gradually hustled my way to to, uh, positioning myself as an opportunity above source. Right?

So, um, unless I would have donned various hats, I wouldn't have been able to empathize with those specific hats later on. So, uh, for example, I can work well or people, uh, you know, like, I I do have some, uh, content writers or, uh, content writing agencies whom I work with some of my clients and they appreciate the fact that I, uh, you know, give them a very detailed brief, uh, when it come when it comes to writing, uh, you know, a strategic piece of content, a white paper or something because I have written that myself, okay, in the past. So I understand and empathize their challenges of not getting a good brief. And that's why from my end I try to make, uh, because I've been on the other side that, you know, receiving briefs, I know that, you know, writing a good brief is very important because, you know, garbage in garbage out. If you give them garbage or if you give them incomplete stuff, you will get garbage.

So that is something which as a marketer, uh, you know, I have learned. Uh, so when it comes to process, this is something this is a bit of a process orientation which I've got from myself that, you know, when I'm giving briefs to people, I try to be as clear as possible. That's how it is. So yeah. So net net, what I'm trying to say is, uh, uh, when when people I mean, you you in your early stage of the career, try and wear various hats.

See if you can work, uh, in a more generalized field than a very specific field. Because if you are working in very siloed fields, you will not need necessarily be able to appreciate the other fields as well. So see if you can get wear multiple hats in the same company or whatever and, you know, uh, taste multiple things and then decide what you want to do in that field. So this is very helpful to know. I think, again, just, uh, revisiting the question, you know, based on your career, like, what do you think, uh, you know, that you've learned over the past 15, 20 years of your, you know, working that you would like to impart to the listeners that, you know, you've learned the hard way?

As far as I think well, basically, a summary of what I shared during the interview. 1 is, um, trying out different things. Okay. Uh, fortunately, uh, you know, and and again in the context of people right now, they anyways have options various options in education. I remember, uh, you know, uh, visiting my alma mater again for a startup event.

I studied in Jai Hind College and did my basic journalism there. I think a month back I was student again for a startup event. And I remember asking somebody that, you know, uh, what are the different courses being offered offered in the college now? And I was surprised that even BCom had so many variations right now. So I'm just saying that we are living in a world where options are many and, um, doing multiple things also is possible.

So what I'm trying to say is doing multiple things, you should not be you should not shy from doing multiple things and, uh, you should not, uh, you know, you should not limit yourself, uh, with, uh, some, you know, preconceived notions about yourself. Okay. I know again, it's easier said than done, but, uh, as I said that you the more you try different things, you will discover new parts of yourself. Uh, so that is something very important. 2nd is, uh, I again, 2 years is own, but I do advocate frugality, uh, of life of living, I mean, in the way of life, as a way of life.

And, uh, I think it has helped me immensely. It has kept me grounded. It has kept me comparatively, uh, less insecure than many people. I do I mean, obviously, I'm human. I do have a level of insecurities.

But I guess the fact that I don't have too many needs helps me in my career. Um, I, um, um, yeah. I mean, the network like crazy because I think network is a network. It has helped me, you know, uh, and it's still helping me for that matter. And, uh, yeah, I guess, uh, here are 3, 4 things which I would say I would leave, you know, for the younger generation to imbibe.

Mita Mandawker: Great. Great. That's very helpful to know. I think it's been very interesting listening to your story and especially the way you've transitioned from, you know, your career has been interesting. You started off working with very established companies.

You did not, uh, did not fit with your career vision or the way in which you wanted to work. So you actually went about creating a career for yourself in a very different time altogether. Uh, I think that's extremely inspiring. At least for me, I found it very inspiring. I think listeners would also find it super inspiring.

Uh, so, Sonesh, like, firstly, thank you so very much for taking time to speak with me today and for so graciously and so generously sharing your story. It was enlightening. It was inspiring. Uh, I know that you've recently won an award for, you know, uh, I think marketer brand marketer for the year from World Congress.

Sonesh Prakash: They were facilitating a group of marketers.

I was, uh, the lucky 1 of them as well. So yeah. It's amazing. Congratulations on that. I'm so excited to see what's next for you.

Mita Mandawker: I keep on following your content on LinkedIn, and I'm also in the show notes later. I'm going to link your LinkedIn, uh, in the description so that, you know, others can also go check out your content. Thank you once again. It was a Thanks, Anita. Thanks.

Sonesh Prakash: And really appreciate you asking the right questions and, uh, bringing the story out of out from me. And, uh, yeah. I look forward to more such interactions in the future. Yeah. And that wraps up today's episode of Ctrl + Alt + Marketing.