Journey from advertising to co-founding ed tech startup, creativity and more | Abhimanyu Saha, Co-founder, GuruQore

This transcript has been lightly edited for brevity.

Mita Mandawker
(00:03):


Hello and welcome to Ctrl + Alt +Marketing. I am your host Mita Mandawker. Today I am chatting with Abhimanyu Saha, co-founder of GuruQore, former Strategy and Planning Director at Experience Commerce, and a marketing educator who's changing the game. Abhimanyu is passionate about teaching the next generation of marketers to become 360 marketers. In today's episode, he talks about how he got into advertising, his experiences working in digital account planning right from its inception, something called as trial by presentation, and a lot more. Now here are some interesting facts about Abhimanyu. He played national-level cricket. He studied biotech for his undergrad. He’s done his MBA in advertising, and he is a key music producer whose song has been featured on the Spotify editorial list. Now that I have set stage, let's meet Abhimanyu. 

Mita Mandawker
(00:58):


Thanks, Abhimanyu for coming on the show. I'm so excited to have you here. So firstly, let's rewind. Tell me, how was it like growing up? I'm very curious about, you know, what were the kind of passions and interests that drove you and, you know, impacted your journey. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(01:15):


Thanks a lot for having me. I feel like a lot of gratitude for being here. Firstly, in terms of my backstory, I think most of my childhood was spent in sports. Childhood meaning like maybe standard ten. I was playing sports most of the time and that would be cricket. I played that professionally. I was never a good student, you know, not. Not one of the first benches. I was hardly able to understand what was happening in school, to be honest. You know, somehow like passing someone cross, somehow crossing the line. So studies was not something that I was really interested in. I never understood what was happening. But yeah, I was playing professionally. So that meant that I was very far from school. Also, most of the times I was sort of traveling with teens. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(02:15):

I was in summer campsite and, you know, these were like grueling camps of three months, four months that I was away from study. So most of my childhood was that like preparing for national camps, playing cricket, then coming back and giving exams. Though I would have actually passed even if I wouldn't have given the exam because we had this certificate, because I was playing national level, I was representing the state. You could just pass. But my father being my father, he said that, no, you have to give the exams. And then I would just come back. And the next day there was physics. Physics exam, let's say, okay, what am I going to really do? And my friends would be like, why are you asking to give the exams? They've been studying for so long and we still don't know anything. 

Abhimanyu Saha (03:00):

How, how will this guy pass? But yeah, that's what, that's, that's what most of my childhood was in terms of like, really, activities. I mean, I'm sure we, I've seen cartoons and all that, which is the usual stuff, but I mean, most of it was just me playing and we end up preparing for these scams. That's what I did. That's, that's the standard ten. After that, I realized that my parents would not really, while they were very open and really let me play for as much as I wanted to. But, you know, the whole situation with sports as a career was not there. Even if it was cricket. I mean, this is. I'm talking about 2000, you know, two and three, right? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(03:46):

So pre IPL and you know, if you, even if you played like Ranji and all, it's not like you couldn't live, you know, we didn't have, you know, aspirational role models to look up to. So then we had to like say, okay, now you got to study. So after 10th, I started studying and I started figuring then that's when, you know, I figured that bio was a bit alright for me. And, you know, I thought, I will become doctor. And, you know, that's the direct jump that I made in my head. So. Yeah, so that's when I, then I gave some joint intensive, state intensive exams. And that was the most I had sprinted for exams and studying like, you know, three, four months of focus studying I did. I never thought myself that I would be able to do it. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(04:37):

That's what, the first time maybe I figured that I really have that conviction thing that if I want to do something, I can put my head to it. And, and, you know, I was ranked, I think, 275 or something like that in the whole state for medical. Though I didn't get into the. Whatever, mbbs because it was supposed to be the top 120. But my parents were proud and happy. Like this guy who never like worry about education in his life, was never interested, could do something and yeah, I think that was it. That's, that's my childhood. 

Mita Mandawker
(05:16):

So many exciting things over there. I think the part that you mentioned. So it's such a stretch, okay, from playing sports, from being someone who played at state level to just transitioning into like a very academic kind of a role wherein you are studying very diligently for bio, you're appearing for your medical entrance exams, you also end up ranking at a state level, though you did not enter medicine later on. And I think it was a probably a great decision in hindsight, but I think that's a very interesting part of your journey. I think next I would want to understand is so you later on, you did your undergrad in biotech. And I remember because we swapped, like, a lot of notes on life sciences versus biotech. And how was it like studying those pure sciences of sorts of. 

Mita Mandawker
(06:13):

So that's a very fascinating thing to study. And I think, given your interest in bio, is what prompted you to enter biotech over there. So what really happened? Like, you know, how did that journey start off? Like getting into biotech and then you went on to do something completely different. Yeah, let's unpack that.

Abhimanyu Saha
(06:33):

Now that you look at it this way, I'm getting also different perspective. But I mean, see, I figured bio was the thing that I liked and then I couldn't crack the medical stuff. But because I got some ranking, there were these other sort of avenues that were available to me. So let's say, you know, agriculture, agribusc, and, you know, pharma. I know those things are also there at that time. Right? And my pair and my father was like, you know, we should do it. Know, there were these new colleges that were opening up at that time, and government initiatives around these colleges were coming up and new colleges are happening in our state and in northeast and different places. So you're like, you should do it, take it. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(07:19):

And, you know, you'll get a gazetted rank sort of thing when you come out of this. You know why? It's not bad. Like, but I was like, you know, I couldn't imagine myself doing that, you know, that kind of work. And by that time, my brother had already come out of our state. So the context is that we. We have very strong state tripura and we stay in the city. Even though it is the capital, it's still like exponential. Was very low. Now, though, digital is different discussion. So my brother had by that time come out, which is like one of the only few people, aunt from our family who had come out. And he was, you know, he did his bsc in it from Kolkata, which is one step further. So you come out. 

Abhimanyu Saha (08:03): 

Then he got into like a MBA thing from ICFAI. And at that time, ICFAI was one of the top ten sort of MBA colleges and stuff like that. So he had a lot of exposure of life by that time. And he had come out and he obviously guided me a lot at that time. And he supported me and told my father that it's alright, send him outside. And to have that kind of vision at that time, I feel like really blessed that my brother had that kind of vision at that time. He said to my father that send him outside for five years. If he doesn't do anything, he can come back. So, you know, there was this timely thing. And my father was like, still not sure. And then my brother was like, TK, I'll figure some colleges for him. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(08:53):

And at that time he was working in Delhi. He was like an investment banker sort of profile for him. He had hard days because these are all very stressful roles. So then I came to Delhi. He figured that there are these colleges which was way beyond my dreams because my percentage was like I hardly got like 60 percentage or something. And were in state boards so we didn't have marks like the CBSE or ICSE people. And DU asks you like 95% to even give you the form that, you know, DU is that kind of a place. So he's like, no, there's sports quota. And, you know, we'll get you through this national level thing that you have gotten. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(09:37):

So then I went to all of these colleges which were like the Saint Xaviers and Saint Stephens and Hindu and all these famous colleges in Delhi. But then I couldn't get through because I figured at that point of time that sports quota was another way for politicians to get their people in. And that was another reality check for me. I mean, there would be one or. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(09:59):

Two people, they would get properly through sports. But then again there will be local Delhi people or people who are playing in those states, right? So then I was like a little disappointed, like TK, you know, I don't want to use sports to get into whatever, you know, sports. Done. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(10:12):

I'm done with sports. And then my brother, okay, then go to Bangalore. That's where all the kachra will be going. So. Right? I mean, not in so many words, but you're like, okay, go there. You can like take something up and study undergrad. Clear. Karo, even that time he had a. Lot of businesses that you will not. 

Abhimanyu Saha (10:33):

Get any jobs after undergrad. For sure it won't be a good job, whatever you get. So you know, start preparing for your MBA or something like that. Why? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(10:41):

Once you go. So then I said, okay, I'm good in bio. I want to do something bio. And then biotechnology was the hyped term, as you may know from that era. And then, you know, I ended up in a college in Bangalore doing biotechnology. That's what. That's the. That's the biotech story. 

Mita Mandawker
(11:02):

Yeah. And then you went on to do your MBA. So, like, the. I think things were going as per plan over there, like, you know, whatever path was envisioned, you were walking in. 

Abhimanyu Saha (11:13):

I mean. Yeah. 

Mita Mandawker
(11:14):

So then what next up to that? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(11:16):

If you look at the, like, CV. 

Abhimanyu Saha (11:17):

From a LinkedIn perspective. Yeah, it would look like that. But the struggles were different, for sure. I got to this college, and then I figured that I don't like biotech, so. Which is what I realized after, like, six months that, you know, I can't do this lab stuff. I was not really a good. I mean, there are so many intricacies in terms of, like, you know, your lab, you're very good with decisions and your hands and. And stuff like that and figuring those amounts. Right. I was not a person who was good at that, you know, and I was struggling very hard, even though I could understand the biochemistry of, you know, at a first principle concept level. But I was not really good at, you know, in actually doing the stuff, and I realized that I can't do it. So then. 

Abhimanyu Saha (12:08):

Then I sort of said, look, this. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(12:10):

Is the time that maybe I'll just explore life and just big city life. Explore. Get to know what's happening, you know? And. And that's when I also sort of started picking up music very strongly as a passion point of doing it. I was always into music I would have in the time when I was preparing. Like, my childhood also had me being a big fan of bands and music and getting cds and writing raps and poems, etcetera, because I was very much into that. But in college, the first time I got exposed to, like, people who were actually playing music, they playing the guitar, they in a band or something, and I was like, no, dude, I have to do this. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(12:54):

So then once I gave up my focus on, like, biotech, I took up the focus on guitar playing, which itself is a hard skill to pick up, you know, because, you know, just like startups, a lot of guitarists fail. Right. You know, I'm sure that there's a percentage, but out of, you know, ten people would pick up the guitar. I'm sure seven, eight people don't play because it's. It has a steep learning curve in terms of, you know, so. But then again, I figured that, you know, if I put my mind to it, I could do it. So I would play the guitar whole night. People won't be able to sleep. I was practicing. Practicing, and that's the stage where it doesn't actually sound good because you are trying to practice and figure out. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(13:34):

And my roommates are all like, what the hell is happening? Do all the night, you're practicing all the day. So I would play practice day and night and within sort of three, four months I was like ready to play in a band and I was like, yeah, I will play with you guys because, you know, I had like an inspiration I was the next time with you, right? So then, you know, that phase of my life in Bangalore became all about music and the usual friends and night outs and all the other experience maybe that we don't need to speak about in this podcast. Well, maybe a separate podcast would be good for that. But yeah, I got all the life experiences and made friends and played and picked up a skill that would stay with me forever and time to come. 

Abhimanyu Saha (14:17):

So that's what happened then. I, I sort of passed out. I, when I was passing out of my graduation, obviously I had this whole sort of guilt that I am not going to get a job now because my parents will not pay anymore. You know, that's like they have already put all of their savings etc to sort of send me out because understand, while they were both doing jobs, my parents, the income level because the, because we are from a smaller state, the expenses and living are low. But once you start thinking that of us like a larger state that money is pretty high, right, for colleges, etcetera. So they had to do that. So then I couldn't ask them for any more money. So I said, okay, some job has to be like taken up. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(15:04):

And surprisingly or not surprisingly our college campus had like call centers who had come to sort of recruit. I'm like, okay, very nice. You know, biotech, we did everyone now is this call center. So then call center jobs. And I was good at talking, as you can understand now, I was not a shy person so I, maybe my English was not that good or whatever but I was confidently speaking out. So a call center job would be all right for me. And you know, among all the people that we had in our college when I went, maybe I cracked the interview who call center job. It was a, it was the pro and that job was in Hyderabad and it all sort of aligned because my brother was also in Hyderabad at that time. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(15:48):

So I was, okay, whatever, 10-12k I'll earn, I'll be with him, I'll figure out the MBA stuff, I'll prepare for cat and I'll have this job and all of that. And I'm ready. So I'm going with this. We pro offer, etcetera, shifting from Banglore to Hyderabad. And I think the day I shifted or after I shifted, we proceed that, you know, this Hyderabad job opening is not there or whatever. We have to go to Delhi for the same role. Right? So then I was like, you, dude. Delhi Jackie, you know, they were not paying a lot, obviously, and, you know, getting a house and all of that would not work out. It would be, again, a mess and in a struggle of the first order. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(16:30):

So then my sort of sister-in-law at that time, she was an HR in, I think it was Patni computers back then. Now I think something else. And she said that, okay, I know some hrs who I can speak to, and you can go and do these interviews, because call centers, the orbi, you can go and give sort of. So then I started going to one call center. It was called twenty four seven. I went and then they said that it's not a voice function, it's a chat function. So I'm like, all right, I don't know how to type that fast. Right? You know, because, again, we didn't have that amount of exposure to laptops or this thing by that time. So I was not very fast. And there are other people who. From cities who type way faster, right? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(17:15):

And the chat function is all about how fast you can type. That was one of the barriers. This was not about Boyden. So I gave a test. I failed. They didn't take me in, and they said that, okay, you can come back again because I know your. Whatever, sister in law, you can come back again and give another one. If you feel that you can try, like, practicing a little bit of typing, come back. So then I went back home, and then I downloaded, at that time, the software called Typemaster Pro. And this is 2010. And then I started typing, and I typed for, like, four days, and I made my typing better. And then I went back the next week to give that interview. And then I come out successful on the other side because my typing speed had increased. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(18:09):

All this for typing job. Imagine, like, call them to job. But I'm happy I get this job in this company called 24/7 it was pretty big calls to try and exist now. So I come back and. And then, you know, all right, it's nice you have a job. I'm getting settled with my, like, family and my brother, sister in law. And. And then by that time, that is happening, I've already been exposed to my brother being in Deloitte. And, you know, he talking about the nice culture that it is and all that, you know, things that they get, and I'm like, very nice. Then my brother was also not very comfortable, me working in a call center because he thought that maybe growth won't be there. Like, wherever. Where will you go from there? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(18:52):

So he was looking and finally found one job in Deloitte or a function under consulting, which took undergrads, because Deloitte at that time will only take these specific master people or, you know, MBAs or MS people, etcetera. So there was an undergrad thing. So I was like, yeah, let's go. So I went, there are 20 people were intervening for this one spot, and all undergrad people who were local, from Aydawal, et cetera. And thankfully, the. The test that we had to give was, like, this cat type test that I had prepared for so long. And I obviously, I couldn't crack CAT, but I was preparing for it all the time. The first time I gave grad undergrad, I got some 60 percentile not happening. But then I was preparing for CAT.

Abhimanyu Saha
(19:47):

So I knew this logical reasoning DI and type of the kind of test that they put up, I was comfortable with compared to the other people who were just undergrad and just came for that. So then I went through. I gave the test. I got through. And obviously, there was referral also from my brother. Being in Deloitte, that obviously helped. I can't just say that it was me. And then I got the job in Deloitte. So that's the story of how I got into. 

Mita Mandawker
(20:17): 

That was quite a merry adventure. I had no idea that you had your roots. I mean, your interest in music kind of really took off from that. You know, I don't want to call it a debacle, but it did feel like a debacle back then. Right. The whole biotech thing. Like, it wasn't something that was working out of. But you discovered, like, a new interest, which has stayed on with you right until this day. So I think that's a very interesting takeaway from this. And the journey is so interesting, like, you know, trying to find your first role after an undergrad in pure sciences. I think it's an adventure in itself. And yours was even more so. I think the whole typemaster pro. 

Mita Mandawker
(20:59):

Yeah, that is the kind of thing. 

Mita Mandawker
(21:05):

Typing for four days straight just to get a job, making sure that, you know, you're able to chat that fast. I think that's adulting at its best. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(21:16):

I think so, yeah. 

Mita Mandawker
(21:20):

Great, great. So at that point of time, that you were working, and then you were also preparing for your MBA at the same time, and you ended up getting into symbiosis after that. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(21:32):

Yeah. 

Mita Mandawker
(21:32):

So how was your journey? Like, you know, I mean, the whole. You knew that you were going to do your MBA. You ended up there. How was the experience like, there? And what exactly happened, like, after MBA? Because that's when your career in advertising really, like, started. So let's dive into your advertising career. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(21:50):

Nice stories there also. I mean, this nice. I mean, I think I made good stories out of my life, whichever way you want to see it. But when I was preparing CAT second time, this is after Deloitte, and, you know, I worked there one year, and then I started preparing again. Again. I was really not good at academics as such. Like, a person who would be like, I'm not a very intelligent, quote unquote person who would go by math and EI and, like, really, like, the usual thing that they look for in. In cat test. I was not that person. I. I figured that initially, but, you know, at that time, we didn't have mentors, as, you know, as we have now in today's day and age, where someone can tell you, dude, you're not good at this. Just move on. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(22:33):

Do this or do that. Right? Because options were also so low, you could not fathom that, oh, you are not good at it. Just do it, man, and figure out. But sometimes you're just not good at it. So I figured that math and, you know, I was good in logical reasoning for sure. And I was good at English Torah both. But rest I was not able to cover. Right? So even the second time when I gave cat, I was not, like, up there. It was like some 65 percentile, which was not even funny because, you know, there's no. Nothing coming to you with that percentage. MAT was an easier exam. I think I gave that 95%. But this is the layer below CAT, right? You know, MAT, there was. I was okay there. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(23:17):

But I also gave SIMBI specific exams because SIMBI had this map sort of exam which would give access to this SIBM and these, you know, top. Also top SIMBI colleges. There also many. I did not do well, and I was shitting bricks, most of it. But there was this college called SIMC. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(23:39):

I saw that. And because of my interest in music, I saw their, like, studio and their outboard gear and all. I'm like, you know, this is the place it looks like I will go. Right? And by that time, another interest that I may have not touched till now, but by that time, when I was growing up and I was seeing a lot of tv, obviously growing up in cartoons and series, and. And I was to obviously watch cricket throughout the day of highlights. Like, my parents, my mother would be like, what is this guy doing all that? I am watching some scopes. I would watch this ads that would be coming through, right? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(24:19):

And one thing I used to do very strongly was that I would recreate the ads in my mind, not telling anyone, but just, I would create clear in my mind, I, oh, this could better this way. Better this way. This could be done this way. So I was getting those things introduced in my head. I mean, there was no explanation of ads or advertising. I didn't even know there's something like this exists. We would just see ads, that's all. So when that thing, seven, eight years down the line, I connected, and I said, okay, dude, there's this MBA in advertising. Why am I not going for that? Looks like there's something strong that I can connect to, right? And then I saw assigned. See, there was this whole studio. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(24:57):

So all that sort of made me warm and fuzzy about this college called Symbiosis Institute of Media and Communication, and. And they thankfully, also accepted a lower SNAP score and for sort of entry. So I went to the GDPI, and I scored high in GDPI because, you know, that's where my, you know, skills were, right, in the group discussion and personality, like, high score, right? So though my, like, return scores were low, I covered a lot in the. The personal interview and group discussion as a person. So I got, like, equal good marks or higher there. So my SNAP score somewhere came where I got then entry to this college called Symbiosis Institute of Media Communication was a huge thing. Like, you know, I was, like, anxious waiting. They were like, second place, third list. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(25:47):

I was, I think, in the third list, and I got through there. And so, yeah, that started. And I think once I was in that college, because it was such a niche course, and it was specifically built towards gearing you up to be an advertising professional, I fell in love with that course, and this was the first time I was studying, and people would call me a walk, a closet nerd. They would call me a closet nerd because at the. At the. At the face of it, I was this sports person, musician, tattooed person who's just booming Ama roaming around like, I'm not the usual, like, you know, the people there, oh, they. They're studious. They. They don't study. They meet. As a studios person, Mita is gonna study right. You know, but you don't look at. Me and ever say that this guy's. 

Abhimanyu Saha (26:42):

Gonna be, like, doing assignments or. And like, everyone was like, whoa, saha. You know, he'll do all this shit, but he is closet nerd, remember? He will study, he will do all the assignments. He will research, he will get, like, you know, go out and do all the stuff. So I also figure for the first time in my life, I was doing something that I really liked, and it. And then it didn't stop me from studying. And, you know, it made me realize that if you find the right things that you are interested in, you will study, you will read, you will want to know more and more. Right? So then that two years were a blast for me because I learned everything from consumer behavior to marketing itself was so interesting. 

Abhimanyu Saha (27:28):

And, you know, they were like, you know, behavioral psychology classes, behavioral economic classes. And I was like, yeah, man. And I was like, give it to me. Sort of. So, yeah, that's what happened. 

Mita Mandawker
(27:45):

This goes on to show, like, you mentioned that if you truly love something, you're going to find a way to study more, to do more of it. You'll really enjoy it, assimilate it. But the whole journey of discovery, that's what takes time. Just figuring out where. What is it that really interests you. So basically, advertising was always there. Somewhere at the back of the mind. Maybe it was not very clear enough, but things kind of finally clicked when the whole Symbiosis thing happened. And when you could relate your interests, you could even relate the kind of things you were being taught in the curriculum. So you were always meant for advertising in a way. It just took you a slightly longer amount of time to just reach there. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(28:32):

And I'm so grateful that I did, like, sort of went there. 

Mita Mandawker
(28:39):

And you have had, like, a great journey after that. Okay, so you started your advertising journey, like, post your MBA with account planning in itself. Your internship was also an account planning. Like, you've been a planner, I think, through and through. Like, yeah, hardcore. So let's talk about that part of your journey right now. Like, you know, how was it, like, building a career in account planning, like, versus maybe client services or, you know, those more creative copy and design departments? Because you're also a very creative person. So how was it? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(29:16):

Yeah, I think. I think everyone's creative. Just a side note is just that, which field it is. Again, that's just the discovery of it, figuring out which field is. I remember, I'm just trying to give you anecdote from my college days when I went to SIMBI again, you know, I was very outspoken, and I was the kind of guy that would enjoy that kind of college because, you know, you had to come up with ideas, you had to link things, connect stuff, talk, present. You know, it was just my deal. But there were a lot of people who were not that kind, and they would get anxious of people like me, think, these are all the creative people. What am I doing here? Right? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(30:04):

But then I should say that, you know, it's not that, dude, like, you know, you are creative in your own way. Maybe that person would be able to, like, who's saying that to me, can, like, really do good presentations. That's also a creative thing, right? You're telling a structured story in a way, right. Or that person could actually hand draw very nice things on a book, right. You know, art, you give me a pen, my hand will slip through and, you know, I'm not even going to be able to hold it. Right? As I said, my hands are not, like, meant for those kind of, like, very minute, tricky activities. So it's just different people have different ways of being creative because at the end of the day, all of us are creative every day. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(30:48):

It's just that the definition of creative, especially in the advertising industry, is very sharp and focused on certain type of activities. I don't think that's the way to look at it. Just a side note, for people who think they are not creative, you are creative. All right? 

Mita Mandawker
(31:09):

So I think that's the best message to put out there. Everyone needs to know that they just need to find that creative space wherein they flush. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(31:18):

Yeah. So, yeah, I mean, the account planning part, I think, came naturally when I was going through the subjects that were being taught to us. They were subjects like consumer behavioral economics, and marketing. Obviously, as a whole itself was giving me a lot of interest, but these specific subjects, plus there was this whole module called account planning, which was taught by the Rishabh Nayar sir. Hi, Rishabh sir. And he was the planner in Lintas, which is a big traditional agency. And it started as a agency which used to do work only for HUL as in Hindustan Unilever, and he used to work on a lot of these, you know, HUL brands. So when he used to tell the stories of what his work was and. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(32:05):

How you, they would like, sort of. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(32:06):

Come up to these campaigns and, you know, the research that they would be doing and, you know, the consumer insights that they would be sort of mining. I was like, okay, this is something that I have to be the person. Can't see myself being something else. While you can always say, you know, the creative part, why didn't you feel that? I always, while I sort of had it in my head that, okay, I could change these ads and all of that stuff, but I never felt strongly like, you know, pulled into the whole let's write a line or land this, you know, creative campaign. I was more about what's going behind the scene. And all of these subjects was all about the why of things. Why is this happening? Right? 

Abhimanyu Saha (32:50):

If you see behavioral economics and consumer behavior and in all of this account planning and how you consume, my insights all about why, and I think I was very intuitively a people's person who wanted to know what's happening, why it's happening, what are you all about? And that got me very interested. So I was like, okay, account planner banana here, along with obviously some other people, batchmates that we wanted to be an account planner with me. But it was not easy to get into the account planning profile because the industry at that time said, Kaku, you are just a person who have just begun. You can't just become an account planner because it's a senior role. Even if you want to be just an account planner, you got to do servicing work, understand business. And at that time, what the hell is this? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(33:35):

Why do I have to know the business, etcetera, to become an account planner? Not knowing the realities of stuff, obviously. But you could do an internship because internship to Kari Sakta. Account planning, who cares? Internship. So when I was interviewing for internships in college, I got two profiles. So internship to Kahipa Bikar Sakte. Internship to account planning. Right? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(34:08):

So we can do that. So I said, okay, internship. Let's start with account planning. And were interviewing for internships as well. Like, you know, college got some, you know, companies and I was not getting into any of the agencies. Like, I was not getting. I like, what the hell? And even in that situation, they were like, some people had already worked, some people already had some exposure, some people already done some projects. I'm like, what the hell? My cv is just blank. What have I done till now? Right? People would come with you. Internship. I'm like, where? What have I been doing? You know, I've been just lost in the space of learning. I don't have anything on my cv. Like, you know, these things are not told to you. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(34:47):

And then I was not getting ahead because other people had better cv's and something that you will teach, hopefully the modern market year that, you know, this is how you build your start because, you know, we didn't have that knowledge. And then, you know, even being interested and having the knowledge, I was not getting into the interviews because I didn't have anything on my cv. So then one company came. It was a research company. Forgetting the name. It was one of the big research companies. Not the Nielsen's. Not the Nielsen. Okay, let me see. Not Nielsen contact. Not. There's another big research companies. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(35:29):

Not even TAM. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(35:34):

IPSOS. It was IPSOS. All right. So IPSOS came, and IPSOS, man. I made a Deloitte credentials. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(35:41):

I sold them. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(35:42):

I'm like, all right, you know, IPSOS, your corporate people, you need corporate people. I got corporate experience. You know, leave all these ado add people behind. You know I'm going to be with you, right? So they had this research profile. They had this research profile. So I'm like, okay, I am studying ad, and I know I am all interested in research. And plus I have corporate background, sir, from Deloitte. So you got to take me. So then they were interested in me. I got the interview. I came to Bombay. I gave an interview, and I got that role also, okay. In ipsos. It was a nice Rs 10,000 internship at that time. All right, crazy stuff. And I'm like, okay, all right. Ipsos research. All right, research. 

Abhimanyu Saha (36:28):

So then my brother again comes to the picture, and I am a little confused because I was like, okay, listen, if I get into research now, teen Cha Salvador research Karunga in a research agency, in a corporate. I'm not going to get any ad agency exposure, right? You know, that whole feel of ad agency. So my brother was like, you don't have any other interviews? He then again, saves my ass. He says, okay, there is this person that I know and my brother's friend. She works as a PR in Ogilvy. She was in the PR department. And shout out to you, I'm forgetting your name. But she helped me a lot. I'm very bad with names. And, you know, I just don't remember. I don't know if I. I don't know what kind of disease I have. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(37:14):

But she then referred me to this agency called M&C Saatchi to the creative director of M&C Saatchi, right? Deepak Agarwal. I remember his name, and I just land up there. I do this Ipsos interview. I'm just cutting stories. And it's not really aligning. But yeah, I mean, in the same Ipsos interview. After that day, I also landed in this M&C Saatchi. And I say that, okay, I want to, like, do an internship here. So then Deepak, he's the CD, is this flamboyant, like, creative flair, the usual. Wears a hat, smokes and, you know, the usual mad men. Creative, right? You know. You know, out of mad men, you know, he's taking out of madman, right? So I'm like, oh, nice. This is what I want to be. I want to be here. There are small agency in Sakinaka. They were not very big. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(38:04):

They were in this between stage where they were doing digital work. But they also had some mainline work, but not tv work. But they were doing, like, out of form. They were doing, you know, more direct mailers. So very different kind of work. I'm like, bharmjayesa, I want to be here account planning a role. So I'll be here. Whatever you say, I'll do. But give me the account planning role. That's all I want, right? So he's like, yeah, great, come. But there's no money, sir. You can come. Whatever you want to do. There's no money. There's no internship fees. You can just come and do. So then I had to take this call between a Rs 10,000 internship in a corporate, like Ipsos and no money internship in M&C Saatchi for an account plan, enroll. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(38:50):

And again, I did some thinking here and there with my brother. And then we finally took the call of being in MNC Saachi, being an account planner. So then money can go for a ride. I said, let me get the experience. Let me get the exposure. So even at that time, we took that call. No, even though money was important, which I keep telling people in today's day that, you know, you got to take the experience first and then the money. Because if you think just Abhi meh, I need money, in the long run, you will be able to earn more money just by getting experience. So your experience, which is time, is equal to money. So time and money car, that correlation. People don't understand that well, you know, and I try to keep telling them there is this correlation. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(39:36):

So at that point of time, we said that let's take the exposure as the money. And then, you know, I would be then set off on that track and path that I would want to run on. So for account planning job, so did this internship two months there, new city, Bombay. I didn't like Bombay at all initially. I was hating it, right? You know, it was like, packed, crowded, and, you know, were staying six people in this, like, you know, one BHK turn, two bHk, which was full of rats. And, you know, it was horrible, you know, and were staying in Andheri west, right next to shopper stop. That place. I don't think I aware, but we're staying there. And my office was in Sakinaka, so we took the flat in Andheri, thinking Andheri and not knowing that. Andheri west. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(40:28):

Sakina ga jana me gandalakta, right? This is pre metro by the is premature. And I am losing my shit. I'm like, what the hell is this? I am going from and to Andheri. This is Bombay, you know, the spirit and shit. I'm like, I'm hating it. And then, you know, all that happens. And then to add icing on the cake of my desperation, not in the. Not in the positive. Icing on the cake. Maybe there's a better analogy. I'm not getting. My phone gets stolen, right? In the bus in Sakinak, I'm listening to music, as always, and all of a sudden, like, there's no music. The earphones are, like, hanging out of my ear. And that's it. That's that. Come back home sad. And so that happens. That's my internship experience. And I get the experience. I leave. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(41:21):

I was like, fuck it. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(41:22):

I'm going back to Hyderabad now. Bombay is done. I never want to come back to Bombay. I'm going to come to Bangalore. Bangalore is where I did my graduation, so I have comfort. So. And that time, only the jobs were only available in Bombay, Delhi and. And Bangalore. These were the three cities, right? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(41:36):

These jobs. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(41:38):

So then I sit for a final placement in this company called WAT Consult? This is a digital agency, right? Digital social media sort of agency. And even after my internship this last one year, we all decide between us that whether we're going to go into digital or we going to go into traditional, because all we have learned till now was traditional. How to crack a tv ad, do the research behind that. Big campaigns and all that digital. There is none of that. Digital is a completely new world. We don't understand shit. We don't even understand if that is a world that, you know, we should get into, right? It's like 2013. We don't know anything. Facebook is all about some Farmville and shit, right? So. So we're like, what is going to happen? Like, what is this thing? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(42:21):

You know, you're looking the grand tv and you're looking at grand campaigns. And you're like, no, really, do you want to be in digital? What is this shit? 
Right? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(42:29):

But some of us taking, we took that call, which includes Mihir Palan, who's also one of the mentors who's teaching us, you know, media planning and audience planning. He's my bachelor from SIMBI. So we three, four of us are like, pro digital, like digital karenge. You know, we will go and we'll do digital. We were seeing all these campaigns that are, you know, on digital, how it's happening. It's all happening in us and UK at that time. You know, were all sort of seeing campaigns there, and we're seeing India may sub kese Karthikasakarang and all that. So then what council comes again. It's an agency that was doing things before its time. I would say 2013. They are all about Facebook games. They were doing this engagement stuff and all that. So we like, okay, we will go here. We. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(43:17):

We do our interviews and they take at least 10-12 people from our college at one go. They're like, oh. So now I look back and I feel that, okay, they were like really growing. They had a lot of requirement. And they're like, you know, we'll take. People from this college. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(43:31):

So then some people go into PR. So some people, they had like, you know, our college had specialization as well. So we had advertising, media and PR, these three specific things, right? So some people are going into media planning where they're going, and actually planning media for Facebook, Google, you know, the whole excel sheet sort of thinking and back end dashboard thinking. Then some people are into PRoper. They are doing PR for that company. And some of us were becoming client servicing people because, you know, were supposed to be the more generalist as advertisers or marketing people or whatever, right? So I did that one year. There was no account planning. I was just used to do client servicing and, you know, tell how figured how the social media thing worked and, you know, how digital was working at. That point of time. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(44:22):

So that one year of strong experience gave me a lot of understanding of digital social audience.
All that, right? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(44:33):

I soon leave that company, 13 months, I stay there. I was clear that I don't want to be here after a year, but being backward or traditional or whatever, millennial, were like, you know, Gen Z would be like. Would just take off. Bye bye. So were like, I was like, 13 months. Twelve months. Need 13 months. Twelve months. People will say, why twelve? Just one year, 13 months. So. So I did 13 months there and then I'm trying to figure out account planning, right. That, you know, do we get a place where I can do this role now? You know, especially in digital, because it's very tough. Now, you could do that in a traditional setup, even though, you know, you would say that you need two, three years of experience. But in digital, there is nothing called account planning. What is account planning? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(45:23):

Digital people are just doing social media. My campaigns platforms figure out twitter, ad units. So it was all becoming more media led. It was more about ad units and engagement units. And, you know, how you measure Roi. So that world was becoming very input, output, as I keep saying that, you know, so I had this philosophy. I wrote a blog about that as well, that, you know, there are two worlds of marketing. There's this one input output world of marketing, which is this world that digital was becoming, that, you know. Yeah. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(45:56):

Bitna pesa dalogi, itna logi, ithana log, engagement. So that is what that world was sort of becoming. And in that world, I had to figure out, though, I love digital. How do I really do account planning here? Like, either account planning, like, is there any. Any place to do strategy work, do insight work? You know, because it looks very flimsy right now. You know, people are just trying to figure out what's happening. So I get this. I don't know. I think it was LinkedIn. I don't remember. But I saw this job opening of account planner in a digital agency called Experience Commerce. I'm like, bhai yeh to dream job hai. So then I apply, and then I go for the interview. They were in Andheri at that time. Small, bustling office. Again, as a digital agency, they were growing just like, WAT Consult? 

Abhimanyu Saha
(47:00):

And no, you had to, like, just put trust because these are not known names. I mean, even experience commerce till date is not a known name because, you know, my CEO, Sandeep, who's also teaching, by the way, as a mentor, he never believed in publicizing his own company. So I was like, okay, I was going for the profile, not the brand. I was, okay, I will do account planning work. There I go. I interview with my then manager, who became a manager later, rather than. And she was speaking in the language that I was like, oh, yeah, consumer insight digital. My experience. I'm like, yes, ma'am. This is what I want to do. I'll come and. And they liked me, thankfully. Obviously. I'm sure there are other people who would have come and interviewed. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(47:46):

They gave me an assignment to do, which I did pretty well. And because I was just ready for that day that when someone will give me this presentation to do right. And I did that, she gave me some changes. I did that again. Then I was talking with the HR and, you know, negotiating a bit whatever is possible, and I just wanted to get that job. So then I landed up in experience commerce. And that place has been maybe if not monumental, but pivotal in what I am as a professional, right, to 60, 70% of what I know and what I have learned is from that place. And they, sometimes that place makes you like, you know, ask all sort of work from home and I bid and all that. But, you know, that culture and that, it's like a pot. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(48:38):

Like, you know, they keep, they say this isn't a melting pot of culturally, what does that mean? But, you know, you just be in that and you just brew yourself and you come out and you're different. Like, you know, you're molded into a different personality. And so, yeah, I mean, I think it's a long answer, but, yeah, that's my account planning career. And that's when I, and then when we tried doing, like, really strong digital strategy led work, because the brands that were there while in word consult, they were having, like, volume work done here, they were doing work which were like, very ahead of its time. They were doing digital experience, that the whole name experience commerce was about how you could buy purchase through experience, right? So the name came from there. So it was like, way before its time. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(49:23):

Like, they were doing this from 2010-11. I couldn't imagine, right, stuff like that. So Sandeep and his co founders and everyone over there doing this stuff. So they had like, large brands like MRF, they had like, large brands like Diageo, you know, like art, like, you know, USL, who were interested in these kind of experiential work, who were interested in building this engagement engines, this digital led. It's a different world, right? Not, not only about advertising, and that sort of led me to become like a more of a problem solver thinker than thinking advertising, right. That, you know, my whole world was about, okay, after this will just become advertising. So, no, it's a consumer problem how you want to solve it. There are different ways to solve for a problem, right? So then, yeah, I grew pretty quickly there. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(50:13):

My boss left, then were in an independent team or reporting to my CEO, Sandeep. This was a tough time because all of a sudden I was, like, reporting to someone that I didn't know how to handle, right? You know, it was like CEO said directly, right? You know, it was like, all right, how do I figure out? How do I speak to him? Do I WhatsApp him? How many times can I ask for feedback? You know, it's like, really tough world, you know? And again, there was no mentorship or anything to figure out how do you build that bridge? But thankfully, you know, he was the kind of person. I won't say thankfully, but maybe just it fit the kind of person that I was. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(50:52):

He was the kind of person that he would, like, let you be there, and he will just observe you and he will see if you are fit or not. Otherwise just leave. Like, you know, you. It's like trial by presentation, trial by PPT, trial by PPT. So when my boss, Tania, my manager, she was leaving, she was in her, like, you know, notice period. We had this big pitch of fortune, Adani, right? And Adani wanted to be on digital. And, you know, these. These were times when they're just trying to be digital. Like, you know, this was okay, digital me, Bana Kagan and all that. So they called for a pitch. I did this pitch along with my manager. I did a lot of. Part of a lot of the research and everything. And went to, you know, Ahmedabad. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(51:41):

We were staying in the Adani's. You know, they have this huge ass campus. Far from the. Far from Ahmedabad. Little far from Ahmedabad. And we stayed the night, and I was like, just 10:00 we had dinner, and I was looking next day, pitch hair. So, okay, now let's sleep. Let's like, you know, we got separate rooms, three of us, and, okay, I'll sleep now. And then I'm suddenly get a message on my WhatsApp. Like, you know, come to the. Come to Sandeep's room from Tanya. I'm like, okay. 

Abhimanyu Saha (52:11):

Like, okay, what is this? Like, maybe they will just discuss something about tomorrow or whatever we can do. I'm like, going on the intense brainstorming, intense thinking, and, you know, intense ppt changing is happening. I'm like, oh, God, what is this? And I already had this funny thing, and I'm already, like, not moved to work. I'm sleepy. And I'm like, okay, all right. 

Abhimanyu Saha (52:33):

Then Tanya tells me that, okay, Abhimanyu. This is the part that you need to do. Give me ten slides on this. I'm like, wow, ten slides on this right now. You have a meeting tomorrow. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(52:45):

So I go to my room, which also had very less Internet connection. The WiFi was sucking. At that time, I used my mobile wifi. I worked on mobile, which at that time was not unthinkable because you couldn't work on mobile. It was not. Your mobiles are also not that powerful. I created these slides, and I sent it to her. Next day, we all get up, and my manager, she has food poisoning from a Dal Bhatti churma stuff that we had. All right? She's food poisoning. She can't even come to the presentation. She's in the hotel. All right, sad. But what is more sad is that then I have to lead the planning part, because my boss is going to lead the business part. There are only three people, and my manager is not there. And then trial by presentation is ready for me. 

Abhimanyu Saha (53:32):

Okay, now it's your time, Abhimanyu. 

Abhimanyu Saha (53:35):

You can. So, he obviously trusted, and he obviously didn't have options to not trust because there was no one else. But he did trust, and I did come out on the other side, like, presenting well. And again, presentation was not something that was a weak point for me because I was always doing the structure, storytelling well. But, you know, this was something different because this was, like, assimilating a lot of knowledge, absorbing and not knowing what exactly what they would want, because, you know, the CEO's of Adani and all of them are sitting. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(54:09):

Right. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(54:10):

But that went well. And I came out on the other side. Trial by presentation went well. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(54:13):

I was successful. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(54:15):

I came out alive on the other side. So from there on, the relationship became. Then he started trusting me, and then I grew very fast in the organization. I never asked for, like, appraisals and all that I was getting, and I didn't even have the listening to ask. Right. So I was getting. I got. And then I became Strategy Director to a point where I had to actually tell Sandeep that, you know, this year, I don't want the promotion because, you know, I'm already Strategy Director. Where do I go now? You know, it will just keep. You know, I will just get bloated with this thing, and I don't want this. So, yeah, that's. That's the long story of my professional life. 

Mita Mandawker
(55:00):

I was at the edge of my seat on so many, you know, on that ride. It was honestly like a ride. So many interesting things to unpack, like, right from the time you had to choose between the traditional account planning and the digital account planning. And that brings me to a very quick question, which we will just touch upon briefly after this. But the anecdote around doing the Adani pitch. Oh, my God, dude. That was trial by presentation. 

Abhimanyu Saha (55:30):

Yeah. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(55:30):

Yeah. 

Abhimanyu Saha
(55:32):

This, this is becoming a presentation hook. 

Mita Mandawker
(55:40):

But I think it was fascinating to listen to, you know, how your journey went about in a, in one particular place. And I think that goes on to show that if you find the right kind of setup with the right kind of people, you can actually go on to have like a very good professional experience, great experience of your career. Because to this day, you mentioned that it has changed you. It made you a different person. You're still in touch with everyone you've worked with to the point you're partnering with them in your new thing that you're working on right now. So I think it gives hope and it definitely is a lesson to, you know, for everyone who's listening or who's thinking about, you know, making career moves that you should find. 

Mita Mandawker
(56:28):

You should prioritize finding a the kind of role that you really want to work into, the kind of work that excites you, and even working with the right kind of people, because then you will grow as a person and there is no stopping you.