Being a marketer (CMO) on cap table and why marketers should own revenue | Rapti Gupta (Bugasura, HSR Founders Club)

This transcript has been lightly edited for brevity. 

Mita Mandawker (00:03):

Hello and welcome back to Ctrl + Alt + Marketing. I am your host, Mita Mandawker. And if you missed our last episode with Rapti Gupta, co-founder and CMO of Bugasura and also the co-founder of HSR Founders Club, hit pause and go check it out. It's packed with career gems you don't want to miss. My personal favorite from the last episode was the criteria Rapti uses when she's making her career decisions. In this episode, she talks about her life as a CMO and co-founder, why one should think of themselves as an appreciating asset, why marketers should own revenue, and a lot more. Plus, she has some spicy takes on LinkedIn's gyaan culture that you don't want to miss. So let's dive into the final part of Rapti's story. 

Mita Mandawker (00:48):

It's a very logical and a very practical way of making career decisions. And I think it's going to be very useful for listeners as well, even though it's been very relevant and personal to your experience. But regardless, there's something to take away from it. I think one thing that I would like to dive into a little bit has been the fact that you've always tried to find ways in which you could appreciate yourself. Like, think of yourself as an appreciating asset in terms of the skills that you were gaining and everything. I think a lot more of us need to start thinking like that. 

Mita Mandawker (01:25):

And to some extent, it's also tied to the fact that, when we first spoke, you wanted to take up revenue responsibility, which was one of the primary reasons for even moving on from your previous company in the first place. I would really like to understand your thoughts and your perspective on why marketers should be revenue owners and also just get a little bit into that thought of “think of yourself as an asset and appreciating asset.” I think a lot more of us need to hear that.

Rapti Gupta (01:56):

My opinion on how marketing has changed over time and what the market needs right now, I can just tell you that for the longest period of time, I think marketing was a function. We were all operating on leads and not focusing enough on the conversion. Next, sales was basically, that is why the whole difference or fight between sales versus marketing exists. It's because of this very reason that there is no marketing will get leads, sales will convert them. That was the whole equation that we had, and that's why there was always this back and forth. Like, sales will blame marketing, the leads are not that great. And marketing will be blaming sales that you are not able to convert those leads. You know, I went down to the root of this.

Rapti Gupta (03:02):

The root of this comes from avoiding responsibility for revenue. I think that is the root of it. If you could strategize or make any of the activities that you do in your day-to-day activities, take any of the activities - if you could tie that to the end goal of revenue for your company, you become an indispensable asset to the company, right? Even today, if I had to hire or just think of this, right? Like, let's say I, you have a company and you are hiring someone who you're paying for, let's say just doing their marketing job. But let's say they are also so involved in the product that they're also picking up and helping you make improvements in your product. Would you not want to promote this person to a better position or work longer with them? 

Rapti Gupta (04:04):

Because they are in fact, not just helping you think better about the product, but are also helping you generate more money with the product that you're making, right? So what is important is that earlier, I think marketing was like, you know, we just have to fill our leads quota. We just have to write this. We just have to show how much impression we got, how much CTR we got, and how many views we got. But that's changed drastically now in this market, it's more about every person in the company has to generate revenue. Unit economics. Every founder is looking at unit economics today. I'm sure they were looking at it earlier as well. But I think there are a lot of macro trends that also played into why this has changed as well. 

Rapti Gupta (04:57):

But the market today, right now, is anyone who can take ownership of the revenue and works towards building that revenue is very indispensable to the company. So how can you do that? How can you start taking more responsibility for revenue? Is just by thinking about all your campaigns from a revenue angle? Like, let's say you are planning a Product Hunt launch. Let's say you're planning a Product Hunt launch for your B2B product. First, you need to set - what are the goals you want to achieve from this launch? You need to set a target say, I want to get at least, 100 signups from the Product Hunt launch out of this. I want 50 of them to be paid sign-ups to your Product Hunt campaign. 

Rapti Gupta (05:52):

Yeah. Let's say this is an example that I'm giving you. So let's say that you want a 50% revenue conversion rate for this. What you can do is you can aim for this 200, whatever, 100, 200 signups, whatever, right? And then plan follow-up activities that can actually get these people to upgrade to your paid plan. I think every marketing activity that you do need to have into or take into account how much money can this activity make for you, for the campaign. So this way, you will also start thinking about strategy from a revenue angle. And revenue angle also comes. It's also very, see, these are all layered conversations. Revenue angle only comes in when you've hit a product market fit with an early-stage product. 

Rapti Gupta (06:48):

To understand the product market fit, you have to understand the customer and the ICP in the market. So these are all layered conversations. But all this might seem very overwhelming to you if you're just starting off. So the best way to start off is for you to actually for example, listen to podcasts like these and also learn from experts that are already writing. There are some experts who are doing some great job, you know, like Sairam who writes the CMO Journal. I think that's a great resource for you to learn from. Lenny's newsletter. Great newsletter to learn from. And they don't just write about marketing, they write about products, they write about markets, they write about philosophies. In fact, they also write about their journeys and their mistakes. 

Rapti Gupta (07:43):

So I think these are some of the resources that you should definitely look at and start educating yourself. But don't stop there. Also, start executing that. There is no other, no better learning that you can get than executing what you are reading about. If you found something interesting in this podcast today, take that and go and I execute it. And you do not need a budget for that to do a Product Hunt launch. You do not need a budget to do like, say to get five influencers from your market to post about you. I can tell you 100% that you may not need a budget for that. You can build a relationship with them, you can reach out to them over LinkedIn, you can build a relationship with them, do a webinar with them. 

Rapti Gupta (08:36):

Tell them that they are going to be thought leaders to your user base. Let them post about you. There are multiple ways that you can figure out so don't constrain yourself in the fact that, oh, I don't have a budget, so I can't do this. Figure out how can you be a figure outer? I think that is a very essential skill to make sure that your value is always appreciated. Can you be a figure outer in this market? That's going to make you recession-proof. I think that's going to make your career recession. Don't just think of it as a job. I think it's also for your long-term career. If you could figure out something in a job, you can definitely figure out something in your life. 

Rapti Gupta (09:17):

You can figure out in your career any problem that comes to you or is thrown at you know that you will figure it out because you built that mental model or that mental ability to think, okay, if not this, then what next? Half of the failures happen in your head when you give up. So how do you build that mental resilience in terms of what kind of things do you pick up? Who are you learning from? What are some new things that you're learning and what are some new things that you're executing? I think those things are very important when you think about how can I keep appreciating my value? And my favorite part is just being curious. All of this can only come if you are curious. 

Rapti Gupta (10:07):

Every new innovation or every new product that's coming out in the market is because, founders or creators or innovators are actually thinking about the why. Like, why does this happen? Why does a problem occur? Why and how can we solve that problem comes next? So if you're not asking why I want to be in this profession or why should I be taking this job versus another job that is, that's a very important question to ask yourself. I think those are some of the things that I would definitely ask you - to be curious, and just keep appreciating your value, keep learning new things because that's the only way you will not become obsolete. That's all. 

Mita Mandawker (11:06):

So many interesting anecdotes in this, Rapti. I think one very curious thing. Again, coming back to a word, curious. Yes. I think one very particular detail that has kind of stuck with me during our conversation has been you mentioned a couple of things. You're a huge fan of shipping things fast. You actually shipped like a Product Hunt launch a month after your joining Bugasura. One thing that you mentioned was shipping fast has been one of those things that, has stood you in very good stead, so to speak. Like, you try and, you know, figure things out also. It's inherent in your nature. I think you are someone who likes to be on the top of things, be on your toes. But I think I would just like to get a little bit into, how it's impacted, your career right from the early days when you started your career to this point, now when you are a CMO. So can we just get more into it? 

Mita Mandawker (12:45):

And how do early stage marketers or someone who's right now, even in the middle of their career, build that? 

Rapti Gupta (12:54):

When we started off, like we as millennials or the elder millennials, whoever, when we started off in our job scenario, it was more in terms of, the financial stability that we can bring at home. For me, it was that, I think the reason that I don't want to be obsolete, the reason that I don't want to become irrelevant in the market or whatever, it developed very early on because I had financial responsibilities. That was a very important part for me. And for me, it was like, okay, now, if I need to keep these things going at home, how do I make sure that I'm able to do this comfortably over time, right? 

Rapti Gupta (13:42):

And while that was the fire, and while that was the actual fuel in, but the fire in my belly is still there today while I'm still comfortable and while I'm still in a good place financially, even at home and everything. I think it had become a habit for me. And that is why I still keep thinking about, how can I keep being curious? How can I keep shipping fast? How can I keep doing different things so that I can create that impact? For example, even at Bugasura in the first month, I fired someone. Obviously, they were not adding a lot of value. And I think Pradeep also wrote a post about it when the promotion for the CMO thing came out. 

Rapti Gupta (14:28):

He also wrote a post about it where he said that I was really surprised that Rapti came and fired someone on, like, in the first week of her joining. And I was like, why wait? You waited? Anyway, I think a lot of times what happens is that entrepreneurs in general, they tend to be perfectionists of sorts, because it's their baby. So they'll be like, let's ship this. When it's in this stage, you know, like, I want it to be this way. But I think one thing that all of us sort of also learn throughout our journey is that perfection comes through iterations, and you have to keep putting out, and it's very similar to any marketers journey. Marketing is about experiments. You have to experiment, and you have to understand what channels are working for you, which markets are working for you. 

Rapti Gupta (15:23):

And as a marketer, I think if you're not experimental or curious by nature, it becomes a blocker for you to grow in your career. You know, you cannot get comfortable. You cannot get complacent. And I think in general today, like I said earlier, also, folks in the early stage, they are thinking about doing something of their own. They want to, especially in the tier one markets. Like in your metro cities, in your bigger cities. Most of them are like, I'll be an influencer. I'll create my own content, or I will create, make my own product. One thing I'll tell you, even if you want to make your own product, even if you want to be an influencer, do you not think that these folks have the consistency or are curious or are shipping constantly?

Rapti Gupta (16:16):

Do you think that they do everything that we do at our jobs every day? Think about it. It's like this. You want to start an Instagram page, and you want to be a fashion influencer. You want to be a fashion influencer. For your own account or your own Instagram account. For you to become an influencer, are you underestimating the amount of content that you have to put in and the amount of content that is going to work with your audience? It doesn't come easy. I think a lot of them think that it's easy because there are playbooks, but playbooks are not working in this market. Markets change. Playbooks do not work. You need to think originally. You need to think creatively.

Rapti Gupta (17:09):

It's not possible to be creative all the time. Take it from me, someone who's really worried about my creative juices going away. It's not possible. Which is why you need to keep doing boring work every day. Marketing is actually a lot of boring work here. You have to keep sending those mails. You have to check if your domains are working or they have burnt out. You have to keep looking at your numbers. You have to make those spreadsheets, you have to make those attribution funnels. You have to see all of that. If you don't do that, then your ideas, the creative ideas that you ship in the market, those are a failure. At the end of the day, you have to have a balance between the technical parts of marketing and the creative parts of marketing. 

Rapti Gupta (18:01):

There is no job that is going to be all rosy and that is going to come and sit on your plate and say, hey, this is a pension fund for you. So for the people who are listening in or tuning in from tier one cities, if you do have the means to do something, or if you do have the financial means to do something, I would suggest that you do develop skills that you don't. You have the financials, but you may not have the skills. And when I say skills, it means the softer skills, like consistency, accountability, and reliability. These are the skills that you need to pick up. And these can't be taught in any school. 

Rapti Gupta (18:50):

These are some things that make you a better person in general. Not just a general career person, but just make your generally a good person. Yeah. And do what you say you will do. That's one of the biggest things that people don't do. You know, like people say, we will do this, we will do that, but then who's going to follow through? Who's going to execute it and all your ideas, this is also applicable to entrepreneurs, right? An idea is going to be an idea until it's executed. So if you're not executing, if you're nothing not really doing or working towards that one goal that you've set for yourself, how do you think that you're going to make money or sustain? Even if you're, even if you're financially comfortable today, how long do you think you can be financially comfortable? 15 years, 20 years? 

Rapti Gupta (19:43):

What then? You will eventually struggle sometime at some point you'll end up struggling. So you might as well struggle now because you have the energy, you have the means, you have the opportunities struggle now, I would say, I mean, I don't mean to scare the listeners off this podcast, but dude, this is serious, this is real talk. You have to, you have to struggle initially in your career, or you have to be at least work smartly in your career, pick up skills early on in your career, and push your boundaries. When I say struggle, I don't mean beg on streets. What I mean is that. 

Rapti Gupta (20:25):

When you are having an uncomfortable conversation or there is something that your manager assigns to you that you are not comfortable with doing, do it anyway. Just do it and see now what happens. You don't like it, you disagree. You communicate that to your manager. You communicate that to your peers. You disagree with a certain idea, but let's experiment and see why have those blinders on that. It's my way or the highway. That's not how you will go get ahead because you have to work with people, and your career is just starting. And your managers are your assets, your managers are your biggest promoters. 

Rapti Gupta (21:07):

Literally also, you know, not just on LinkedIn or not just in your network, but literally also. If you want a better job, if you want better pay, you need to have a better relationship with your manager. You need to manage up. The easier you're making your manager's life, the longer your tenure is going to be. And like I said, you become indispensable to the company. The more you think about it from revenue angle, the more you think about it from how you make your manager's life easy, it's just going to be a cakewalk. And if you feel that, you know, this particular job is not for you, don't do it. Figure out what you want to do. And, you know, one of the biggest things in marketing is that people skills are so important. 

Rapti Gupta (21:54):You as a marketer will need to work cross-functionally with multiple teams. You're going to work with data teams, you're going to work with engineering teams, you're going to work with customer support teams, you're gonna work with customers. You're gonna work with sales teams. You need to understand how people work, what makes them tick, and why they want a certain thing to be a certain way. If you can only be a great marketer if you actually unlock how people function because at the end of the day, you're selling to people as well. Marketing should also be a sales job. It should not just be. It should not just be a sales job. 

Rapti Gupta (22:43):

Like, that's the thing that they say, right, your website is a 24/7 salesperson, then why is the sales team not writing the website content? Why is the sales team not managing the website? So I think no matter what profession you're in, whether marketing or whatever it is, if you're not thinking about the company's growth holistically if you're not thinking about the company's progress, then you are not going to have a very long stints. I'm a big promoter of side hustles. Please do 2-3 things together. It keeps you very creative. It gives you more ideas. For example, while I'm running Bugasura, I also run a community of founders called HSR Founders Club. And I meet founders every day. And in fact, we are celebrating our one-year anniversary on 6 April. 

Rapti Gupta (23:48):

And you know, it's just been very eye-opening. The kind of things that I've been learning from the founders that I meet every day or from just running the community, even though I run a community for Bugasura as well, very, two different communities with very different personalities of the community as well, because there are different personas as well. So while I do things over here, like for example, Microsoft is coming as sponsors and they're going to open up their founders hub perks for everyone who's part of the HSR Founders club, this is also a benefit for me because I'm going to take the perks and use it to build my AI, which I'm building in Bugasura. So I'm not saying that side hustles are a bad thing or you should not be doing two, three jobs at one. 

Rapti Gupta (24:44):

Please do so, by all means. But are they making you, are they helping you get closer to your goal of what you want to do. Or are they, is that going to help you compound your skill set? Please do that. If you're doing gadda majdoori today, please keep gadda majdoori  as two things. If you're doing gadda majdoori today, you should not. I think you should do fun work, you should do what you like. You should also be okay with doing the boring stuff because that comes with doing things that you like. 

Mita Mandawker (25:19):

You brought up some two, three very key points here. So one was shipping fast, then, experimenting, trying out different things and also having a very strong sense of accountability to your role or the work that you're doing, because when you're doing that, you're also growing and you're also appreciating as an asset. So we spoke at length about multiple things, but it's all connected together in a way that's the common thread through it. And it's one thing that's also been a very, you know, running thread and sort of values for you even throughout your career. That's a great takeaway that I got from this particular, you know, conversation. 

Mita Mandawker (26:07):

Next part of the conversation that I would like to really get into is, so life for you has changed significantly from what you've been doing for the last ten odd years. So you were a very proper, typical marketer, managing the top of the funnel, working on different initiatives, doing extremely creative work. Now you've transitioned to being a marketer on the cap table, and I would just like to. And not a lot of marketers sit on the cap table that we know of. The experience is a little difficult to come by.

Mita Mandawker (26:50):

I would really like to get into your experience on what it's like on the other side of the table, how has your life changed, and how you also look at companies right now. Like, you have that founder mentality going as well. So you're a marketer and you're a founder. Let’s talk about that.

Rapti Gupta (27:07):

I think also multiple layers to this question as well. I think it's really unfortunate that marketers are not on the cap table more often because they are the ones who are actually doing the GTM. But there is this book called CMO to CRO. I think I will recommend that book to everyone. It's a take on how CMOs are supposed to be the Chief Revenue Officers of the future. And, you know, I just really reflect my opinions from that book. See, right now, for me personally, I believe that I came in with the mentality that I'm going to look after the revenue, and I'm going to take full ownership, and I'm going to charge for this. I'm going full charge on this. So, not much has changed for me. 

Rapti Gupta (27:57):

I'm still doing what I was doing when I joined as Head of Marketing, and it's the same. But I definitely think that there's added responsibility now. When I think about managing the expenses, managing the balance sheets, managing where to cut costs, where I can reduce my spending, etcetera. You know, when you're a marketer, you're only thinking about budgets. Where can I spend? Where can I spend? Where can I spend? But when you're a founder, the whole ROI thing becomes a bit more tattooed in your brain. I think you're more conscious about how much you can spend and what's the best bang for the buck that you can get. Yes, there are a lot of CEOs and a lot of founders who do not understand marketing. 

Rapti Gupta (28:52):

The reason they do not understand marketing is because marketers haven't done a fair enough job to educate them on the unit economics of the campaign. Like if I send, if I spend this much, this is what I can make from this. Again, there are a lot of macro trends that have played into this picture because there's a lot of VC money that had come into the market and resource funds were very readily available. But look at the market contracting now. It's a beautiful market right now. Like every marketer that I talk to, they're all struggling. And I know that they're all struggling about their budgets, about the pressure from the founders. And that is. But obvious because you're not accustomed to doing this kind of jugaadu marketing. 

Rapti Gupta (29:48):

You're always accustomed to having enough budgets to doing certain campaigns. If, early on, you develop this muscle of being okay or being used to not having budgets but still figuring out ways, not having clarity on how we should go to market, and actually figuring out the strategy, I think these prepare you for leadership roles, because at leadership roles, this is what you're doing. You are constantly in touch. Let's say I was not the co-founder, but I was just the Chief Marketing Officer. I was not on the cap table, but I was just a Marketing Head, right? Or a CMO. You have different structures in different companies. Not all CMOs are co-founders.

Rapti Gupta (30:44):

So if you're a Marketing Head today, you are responsible for ten other people who are reporting to you, you have to justify the cost of the ten people, you have to justify the productivity of the ten people, you have to justify the ROI of these ten people. And that's what a Marketing Head has to do. For the longest period of time, even when I was at Instamojo, I was handling a team of 15-20 people. I was doing execution every day. I was still doing execution every day. I was still helping my team figure out the best way for them to execute. That is execution for me. And the higher up in the career ladder that you go, your stress will increase. Your work will increase. It's not rosy dandy, man. 

Rapti Gupta (31:40):

It's not. Your stress will increase. Your work will increase your. But you know what? I haven't really talked about the good parts of this. I've been telling you about how it's tough, it's difficult, it's crazy, it's mental. It's. It's like so much responsibility, so much stress. But the good parts are that it changes you as a person. I think I have become way more patient now. That's my biggest learning. I've become way more patient. Earlier, I was like, when I'm like, ship fast, ship fast, fail fast. But now, when I'm shipping fast also, I'm ready to also, you know, take one step behind and think about how my team member is going to do this and what is the kind of ROI they are going to bring to it. 

Rapti Gupta (32:37):

And for me, as an entrepreneur, I definitely want to adjust for the bang for my buck. As a marketer, I wanted to spend. Just spend and get the ROI on the table. But as a founder, I also want to do this fast. But I also want to make sure that I'm going to get the best bang for my marketing. Because it may not be the same for every marketer. This is my personal journey. Because for me, it was about doing campaigns. Let's figure out what's the ROI. Chuck it. If it's working out, it's not working out. Next one. But as a founder, even when I'm thinking about the campaigns as experiments, I am also thinking about ROI. Now, I understand the fundamentality of why they always stress about ROI. 

Rapti Gupta (33:26):

Because every penny that you save is put somewhere else. You know, it's like a very well-oiled machine. A good company is run as a well-oiled machine. Marketing is just one part of it. However, there are other areas that a founder has to manage. Your salaries, your operating costs, tool costs. So when you're cribbing next time about how your CEO is not giving you a budget for a tool, figure out an open source tool or figure out a chat GPT, this one plugin, or figure out a Google sheet formula that is going to double up as this. Because honestly, your founder is also going to balance multiple other things. Your founder has to look at how can cutting this marketing budget allow me to pay salaries to ten other people for the next month?  

Rapti Gupta (34:29):

So it's a longer conversation. As marketers, we feel that we are zooming into marketing. If, as a marketer, you start thinking about revenue, you will see that these budget problems will also go away. So, I think that's how my perspective has changed, possibly from my experiences. I know that other marketers have had other different experiences, probably more mature experiences than me, but for me, this is what it has been. And, you know, I do empathize with marketers not having budgets. I do empathize with the market being market contracting at this point. But I think it's really a great challenge for all of us to have. And I think if we can just, you know, be a bit creative, be a bit resourceful and figure out different ways to get things done, we can win this budget battle. 

Rapti Gupta (35:38):

Also, if you bring more revenue, you will get more budget. So, yeah, that's how my perspective has changed. 

Mita Mandawker (35:49):

Again, so many thought-provoking pointers to think about. But I think, really, it has been very insightful to understand, you know, how the perspective shifts when you are, when you have a seat at a broader table. Like, yes, marketing is also like one of the departments, but as a founder, you're sitting and managing everything in the company, not just one department alone. So I think that whole zooming out and just taking a very holistic view helps. Again, so many truth bombs here. I think before we move to the final part of the conversation, one thing that really came up in our conversation first, and I couldn't help myself, ask you about this again, is you had referenced a LinkedIn and steroid ethnology when we were first speaking. 

Mita Mandawker (36:41):

So when it comes to marketing advice on LinkedIn, there is like veganism and then there is like steroids. Can we just touch it a little briefly on it? Like, what kind of message do you think you had in mind when you were talking about it? Like, you know, the perfect portrayals that people see online and how it impacts us as marketers. 

Rapti Gupta (37:07):

Yeah. You know what I was trying to actually talk about when we were discussing this, although I don't remember the exact analogy that I made. But I will tell you what I feel today about the LinkedIn culture that we have. The gyaan culture that we have developed. I think a lot of ideas, I think most ideas are borrowed. I borrowed today. What I am telling you as well, they are probably opinions that I have read in books or that I have heard from my friends, and some of them have lived myself and I've realized myself. But a lot of things on LinkedIn are just take it with a pinch of salt. Not everything that you read online is factually correct. See, we, as marketers, we should get this. We are ghostwriters. We are marketers. 

Rapti Gupta (38:11):

We know how to talk about numbers. We know how to write content. We know how to design. We know how to design perceptions. So, if you look at a founder writing something, or if you look at a company putting out a certain post or a certain opinion before you make it your opinion, can you pause and reflect on how you feel about this opinion? Can you pause for a bit and think about what are these? Does this really apply realistically to your situation? Because that's your area of expertise. Your situation is your area of expertise. Can you apply this to yourself? If this feels like a logical thing for you to apply, please apply it. But honestly, on LinkedIn, there is just way too much gyaan that has come out, and everyone is an influencer today. 

Rapti Gupta (39:08):

And that's because we live in that creator economy, and even LinkedIn encourages you to create more. And that's the reason you want to write more and you want to share your opinions, and you want to become an influencer or give more or basically get more eyeballs for your content. But what is legit is what can be applied in your own scenario. And what is legit is. See, this is something that we learn in journalism also - like, how do you separate the whole fact-checking part, right? Where do you, how do you separate truth from fluff? And there's this one thing that they teach you in journalism: go to your sources. Your sources as in official sources.

Rapti Gupta (40:03):

So tomorrow, if you see someone quoting a study on marketing where they said that, 80% of the marketers will not have jobs in the next one year, let's say this is the study that has been quoted. Can you actually find that study? Spend some time on understanding if there is a study that exists like this. What is the methodology that they've used for the study? How many people have they spoken to? What is the metal of the people that they've spoken to? Can you think of all of these things? So I think it's more about. I think that's where questions are the easiest way to thinking, originally. 

Rapti Gupta (40:50):

The more questions you ask about what you consume, the more original thoughts you can develop. So that's what I feel about LinkedIn, and I myself post a lot about on LinkedIn, and I try to keep it real. I try to keep it as,standoffish as you see me. I keep it as original as it can get. That's how it has been for the longest period of time, I didn't have a lot of followers on LinkedIn. Also, my social media lead at Instamojo used to push me, like, why do you have only this many followers? You should increase your followers. So he's thinking from that social media walla scene, right? Like, you should build your personal brand. 

Rapti Gupta (41:42):

You should, sort of do this, do that. And I was like, I'm gonna do my work. My work should speak for me. But then, now that I've become a founder, I know that I have to build my personal brand because that impacts the way I do business as well. So there's that. Not everything you see is black and white. There's no yes or no answer. And I can't come and tell you that I'm an expert on everything. Even today, I don't think I'm an expert on everything. I don't know a lot of things. I am still learning. I go back to my peers, or I go back to my founder friends and ask them, please tell me how to do this, because I don't know this. 

Rapti Gupta (42:22):

The minute you think that you know everything and you have arrived, that is the day you have ended your own career; you've dug your own dream. So, yeah, I think, LinkedIn is just to be treated as your tool to get towards your goal. That's what it is for me right now. 

Mita Mandawker (42:44):

Thanks again for the wonderful take on the LinkedIn culture that we have. I think it's very important to, separate the truth from the fluff like you mentioned in those true journalist terms. I've loved the conversation we've had so far. Extremely insightful and enlightening. So many truth bombs scattered in. Moving to the final part of the conversation - looking back on your career journey over the past twelve years, what has stood in as a valuable career lesson for you or career advice that you would like to share with listeners?

Rapti Gupta (43:25):

I've covered this over our course of conversation as well. But I think if you can develop accountability, consistency, and mental resilience for discomfort in your jobs, you can definitely go a long way in your career. Secondly, I think just be curious. Just, you know, read up about things. Find the right kind of resources on the Internet today to read and learn from. And thirdly, to make sure that what you're consuming is actually effective for you. Go back to your sources. Question, question your sources. I think the more you question the things that you consume, the more original thoughts you can have. You allow yourself the space to have or develop opinions of your own. I think these are some things. And just be okay with discomfort. 

Rapti Gupta (44:31):

Just know that the market's not going to be the best for you in the next 2-3 years. So, how can I be my best self in the next 2-3 years? And, I've also talked about how it's going to be a really tough journey or how it's going to be harrowing for you, but, you know, when you come out on the other side, you feel this rush, you feel this adrenaline rush that, you've achieved something, that you've been through a hardship that no one else that's very unique to you. It can be any kind of hardship. And you'll just have more confidence as a life skill. You know, this becomes a life skill for you. Becoming friendly with discomfort is a life skill. 

Rapti Gupta (45:27):

Tomorrow, if something major happens in life, you won't really break down, and you won't fall apart. You will just, you don't need to give yourself time when something major happens to you need to give yourself time and recover from that and, you know, treat yourself kindly and, give yourself the space enough to recover. But you also need to know that's not the end of the world. You need to know that there's a larger picture for you to paint. And you are the master of that picture to paint. And you can only do that in a beautiful way. If you enjoy everything that life throws at you. And see it's not going to be humanly possible for you to enjoy everything. 

Rapti Gupta (46:22):

But you can change your mindset about it. You may not like something. You may not like something being thrown at you. You may not like a task that your manager has given you. You may not be comfortable with being laid off. You may not be comfortable with a role shift for you. But look at it this way. Can this actually multiply or compound what I really want to do at the end of the day? Can this help me become a better creator? Can this help me become a better entrepreneur? Can this help me become a better human being? If either of these three questions are being answered for you're good, man. And most of the time it does; it actually answers these three questions. So that's it. 

Rapti Gupta (47:05):

I think that's my limited opinion of what I have from my limited experience. I think there are some great marketers who you will also hear on this podcast later on, and also we can recommend some of them in the links below. I think one thing that you can take away from my experience is that getting comfortable with discomfort is always a win-win situation. You should always try that. 

Mita Mandawker (47:37):

That was the most powerful closing note ever. Applicable for career, applicable for life. So once again, Rapti, thank you so very much for that incredibly insightful, inspiring, and not at all scary. I'll call it out again. It was not scary. It was actually very thought-provoking.

Mita Mandawker (49:20): 

I have experience, but it also forced me to think about a few things. So I'm sure it's going to be an extremely insightful conversation for someone who's starting out their career, for someone who's already navigating their career. Thank you once again for coming on the show. It was super duper exciting. 

Rapti Gupta (48:21):

Thank you so much Mita, for having me on the podcast, really enjoyed the conversation myself.